Marks on silver vase

[Dad]

Hi.

I think it really the import mark of the Russian Empire on european item. Period of "early kokoshnik to left". The first months of 1899. Small size of figures "84".
We know about this type of hallmarks very little. They have quickly been replaced with a "usual kokoshnik to left" of 1899-1908.

Look an example of a font on oval mark.

[Goldstein]

Hi Lessing -

In any case, the subject is European, not Russian. And even a problem-free customs stamp does not change much.

A Russian import mark makes it not to a Russian object. Very nice - but not Russian!

Regards
Goldstein

[Qrt.S]

Hi.

... The first months of 1899. Small size of figures "84".
We know about this type of hallmarks very little. They have quickly been replaced with a "usual kokoshnik to left" of 1899-1908.

@Dad
The first ooval kokoshnik with small figures was used during the latter part of 1898 not 1899. It was replaced as from the beginning of 1899. That is known.

[Lessing]

Thank you Goldstein for your comment. If we assume it is a Russian import hallmark from 1898 what would your assumption be of the origin of the vase. Age obviously late 1890.

[Goldstein]

Hi Lessing -

This accessory fashioned in France during the reign of Louis XIV, and then became popular in many countries.
Search the Internet - port-buket.

Regards
Goldstein

[Dad]

@Dad
The first ooval kokoshnik with small figures was used during the latter part of 1898 not 1899. It was replaced as from the beginning of 1899. That is known.

Hi, Qrt.S

Probably I became absolutely old. Sclerosis. Remind me who has legalized this period?

[Qrt.S]

Probably I became absolutely old. Sclerosis. Remind me who has legalized this period?

Sorry Dad, but I don't quite understand your request. Is it this?

http://www.925-1000.com/forum/viewtopic ... xt#p140360

[Serg1975]

Here is the customs stamp on a simple ordinary knife 0.800 silver.
I think there are two letters.

[Qrt.S]

Here is the customs stamp on a simple ordinary knife 0.800 silver.

@Serge1975

The object on the picture you show with the Russian import mark of 1899-1907 above is under absolutely no circumstances of the fineness of .800. It was forbidden by the Russian law to import any silver objects below the fineness of 84 zolotniki (.875) . It would have been rejected and the import forbidden by both the assay office and the customs and never marked with an import mark, probably destroyed instead. If the fineness is tested and the result is .800 silver. The object is a fake.

Anyway, back to the original question, import mark or what mark??? I have wondered quite a lot regarding the strange mark. The result is that it might be a rare "illegal" first left looking kokoshnik import mark with small figures i.e. latter part of 1898 or simply a "Russificated" genuine unmarked object. I believe on the first alternative. In other worlds I share Dad's opinion. However, as Goldstein already mentioned, it is not a Russian made object.

[Serg1975]

Qrt.S
Sorry - .900 - my mistake. Of course.
On the knife the hallmark is 900.

[Dad]

Sorry Dad, but I don't quite understand your request. Is it this?

http://www.925-1000.com/forum/viewtopic ... xt#p140360

Thank you, Qrt.S.
Yes, You understood me correctly.

You write:
"Here it is:
"Для золотых и серебряных дел мастеров" The author is P. Tikhonov, master of the Kiev regional assay administration. The book explains how to implement and understand the assay charter of 1896. In addition I can show a document to the Minister of Finance from the assay department including the exact deadline of the use of old hallmarks i.e. 1898. There are other documents as well indicating the same year. These facts cannot be disregarded. Factum est: The kokshnik with small figures was use only as from ~July 1. to December 31. 1898...."

Can I ask you to show these documents?

I have read Tikhonov's brochure, but haven't found serious references to the period of input of new hallmarks (kokoshnik) here. Unfortunately.

[Ubaranda]

The first ooval kokoshnik with small figures was used during the latter part of 1898 not 1899. It was replaced as from the beginning of 1899. That is known.

Hi Qrt.S!
It is very dubious statement. Some examples:

1-3. It is known that Lebedkin became the chief of the Moscow assay office from February 1, 1899. How do you explain these his hallmarks?
4. Odessa, 1899.

Regards.

[Qrt.S]

@Ubaranda
Nothing is carved in stone regarding Russian silver marks. The absolute truth is still hidden. That is very well known by all of us. My statement is based on the same sources Dad presented above 15.6. at 9.54PM. In addition, some sources state that Lebedkin assayed in in Moscow as from 1898, others as from 1899. Who knows for sure? Regarding the marks you show, the reason could be that Lebedkin didn't have the new punch in the beginning of 1899 and he had to use his old one with small figures. Who knows again, I don't? By the way the last punch with the 1899 mark you show is most likely a fake. Just look at the kokoshnik's face.

[Dad]

Hi, Qrt.S

I asked to show this document. If you have it (copy), I am afraid you confuse a kokoshnik mark and a before kokoshnik mark.
The first of firsts "kokoshnik" mark began use at january 1899. End of using at june 1899. After that was use the usual "kokoshnik to left " until 1908.
It's true, all the rest - fiction. Trust Me ))