Please help identify silver hallmark on baroque silver bowl

[Gerox]

Hello All,
There is a nice baroque silver bowl.

The silver fineness mark is 13 Lot in a sign below it looks like half a wheel.

I can't identify the silver hallmark, and the maker's mark „FRAY“.
For any help I would be very grateful.
Thank you!

Gerox

[AG2012]

Hi,
It was made in Trnava Slovakia (Tirnau).Austria-Hungary Empire.
Baroque revival, mid 19th century.
Regards

[huszas76]

Hello!
Sorry, AG2012, but I must disagree.
I don't know the measures, but I think, it's a salt cellar, or a bowl.
The city is Körmöcbánya (Kremnitz, today Kremnica, now in Slowakia) Tha mark is a half wheel under 13.
The maker is Johann Fray (Frey).
All we know about him is some small item, mostly spoons. We know his name from adressbuchs, 1862 and 1870.
Gerox, can I copy the photos?
Best regards!
Krisztián

[AG2012]

Hello again,
Right Krisztián, it`s ``half wheel`` of Kremnitz (not the wheel of Tyrnau). I remembered there was a wheel but haven`t checked properly.
Both marks from Tardy.


Salts of this form were extremely popular in Austria-Hungary at the time (often low gauge,thin silver), but depending on size it could be a centerpiece bowl (Aufsatz), although I have never seen a rectangular form.Really, how big is it ? Weight ?
The mint in Kremnitz is still one of the best.They minted famous ``ducat`` since 1328.
Regards

[Gerox]

Hi AG2012,
Hi Krisztián,
Thank you for your fast, profound and much appreciated answer.
Of course Krisztián you can copy the photos.
Thanks again, and best regards, with the best wishes for the New Year
Gerox

[Gerox]

Hello again,

Salts of this form were extremely popular in Austria-Hungary at the time (often low gauge,thin silver), but depending on size it could be a centerpiece bowl (Aufsatz), although I have never seen a rectangular form.Really, how big is it ? Weight ?
The mint in Kremnitz is still one of the best.They minted famous ``ducat`` since 1328.
Regards

Hi AG2012,
Thanks again for the great information
It is too big for a salliere. The object is beautifully worked, gilded inside, and solid, not filled even in the state. It's a small table centerpiece for pralines or biscuits or whatever.
Dimensions: approx. 112x87x76 mm
Weight: approx. 110.0 g
Regards
Gerox

[R ingo]

Hello Gerox,

from Kremnitz I know no maker with the name Fray.
But in Kremnitz have worked several Goldsmithes from the family FRAJZAJZEN (Freizeisen, Freiszeizen, ...). May be "FRAY" is a makersmark from a member of this family. But sadly the five examples I know, have worked in the first half of the 18th century. Your item is younger.

Best regards,
Ringo

[Gerox]

[quote="R ingo"]Hello Gerox,

from Kremnitz I know no maker with the name Fray.


Hello Ringo,
Thank you for your interesting hint.
According to the pictures sent by AG2012 from the literature I recognize the hallmark Kremnitz 1850/1860. The design also assumes that the bowl was made in the middle of the 19th century. With reference to the contribution of huszas76, I have no doubt that this is Johann Fray (Frey). 100% sure is nothing but very obvious. I also do not have the opportunity to research the literature more profoundly.
So again all thanks for the profound contributions
and a Happy New Year
Gerox

[AG2012]

This is the reference:
Adressbuch der protokollierten und nicht protokollierten Kaufleute,Fabrikanten und Gewerbsleute von Ungarn, Siebebuergen,Kroazien, Slavonien, Dalmatien,Galizien und Bukowina, Nuernberg 1870.

Page 39

Kremniz

Gold und Silberarb.:
Frey, Joh.
(one of 3 silversmiths in Kremniz at the time).

[AG2012]

Address book of merchants, manufacturers and traders of Hungary etc...

[R ingo]

Hello Krisztian,

sorry, I have overlooked in your post, that you still has found the maker.

Best regards,
Ringo

[Gerox]

This is the reference:
Adressbuch der protokollierten und nicht protokollierten Kaufleute,Fabrikanten und Gewerbsleute von Ungarn, Siebebuergen,Kroazien, Slavonien, Dalmatien,Galizien und Bukowina, Nuernberg 1870.

Page 39

Kremniz

Gold und Silberarb.:
Frey, Joh.
(one of 3 silversmiths in Kremniz at the time).

Hi AG2012,
You're great!!
Thank you
Gerox