Strange English hallmark on a spoon

[SilverBuggy]

Can anyone tell me anything about the mark that I found on a spoon? The spoon responds well to the magnet test. So I guess there is at least some silver in it. But I have found nothing except the mark "England", which seems quite strange as British silverware is not marked like this. Any suggestions? Thanks a lot!

[silvermakersmarks]

I am confused as to why you think that a magnet test can show the presence of silver - it can't. With just "England" on your spoon the only conclusion can be that it is not silver - and may not even be electroplated.

Phil

[SilverBuggy]

Sorry, I did not make myself clear. I used a N52 Neodymium magnet to test it. The spoon exhibited properties similar to my other sterling silver items. Meanwhile, my other ESPN things failed these tests. That is why I made the tentative conclision. Obviously, I know that anything short of the 925 sterling mark or the lion passant, should not be considered as made of silver. I just want to see whether anyone else happened to have similar experience as I do.
My apologies for asking such nonsensisal questions. I should have the spoon tested first before posting my question.

[SilverBuggy]

There is the update. I took the spoon and another unmarked cake lifter to a bullion shop. The guys there tested both with their XRF machines. It turns out that the said spoon is 98% silver and the unmarked cake lifter is 54%.

I posted my question here because when I put the spoon on the table, placed a neodymium magnet 1 inch away from it, and then I moved the magnet sideways, the spoon actually swayed along with the movement of the magnet. That is why I became curious and post my question here. The absence of the hallmarks probably means that both were not made in the UK. They are more likely the work of craftmen in some British colonies. Anyway, thanks for your suggestions.

I am confused as to why you think that a magnet test can show the presence of silver - it can't. With just "England" on your spoon the only conclusion can be that it is not silver - and may not even be electroplated.

Phil

[amena]

I am very worried. Assuming that teaspoon was actually tested with an XRF machine and the result was actually that the teaspoon is made of a 98% silver alloy, what confidence can we have in those machines and who is operating them?
Best
Amena

[AG2012]

Hi,
If the spoon marked only ``England`` is .980 silver, there must be something very wrong with 700 years of hallmarking tradition, which I doubt.
Regards

[amena]

On the Internet, regarding the "magnetic test of silver", you can find a bit of everything.
one of the sites
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Es3JXLZL2g
shows how a silver coin moves, if a powerful magnet is waved over it.
It is very true, you can try it, but you also can move a copper coin, and some of the silverplated teaspoon as well. Perhaps it depends on the metals in the alloy or perhaps a thin layer of silver is enough to circulate a current that reacts with the magnet.
Best
Amena

[SilverBuggy]

I don't know. I brought the said spoon and a 800 Italian fork and some other pieces to the bullion shop. Both were tested by the guy who buys silver and gold for a living. The Italian one checks out alright. The test result of the spoon came as a surprise. My other unmarked British cake lifter is tested 54% silver. And a set of Thai bowl and ladle contains about 50 to 67 percent of silver, depending on the places he scanned. I don't know whether these figures are exaggerated or not. But I think doing so goes against his interest.

I am not as experienced as most of the guys here. So my only explanation is that it is not made by a British silversmith. But that silversmith clearly wanted people to believe that the spoon was made by a British silversmith, but not some obscure figures.

I clearly need to bring the spoon to some other places to be tested.

I am very worried. Assuming that teaspoon was actually tested with an XRF machine and the result was actually that the teaspoon is made of a 98% silver alloy, what confidence can we have in those machines and who is operating them?
Best
Amena

[AG2012]

And a set of Thai bowl and ladle contains about 50 to 67 percent of silver, depending on the places he scanned.

17% difference in the same alloy at different places is not an acceptable result.
Even with acid test we can tell the difference between sterling and .800 the difference being only 12.5%.
And for gold it would be a disaster; 22 K gold coins with actually less than 18K gold.

Regards

[amena]

I would like to clarify what I said about the XRF machine and their operators.
The highest silver standard that was ever used was the Britannia standard, 95.833% by weight silver.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_standards
The use of 98% silver alloy for a teaspoon is really very strange, almost unbelievable.
Best
Amena

[Traintime]

Bump. Note this post regarding 980 Jerusalem with additional Jordan marking: viewtopic.php?f=29&t=20369&p=47187&hili ... 967#p47187

In addition I have the remains of a souvenir type spoon (top half of handle is gone) with the bowl backmarked BETHLEHEM over 980. (There was a Bethlehem in South Africa, but perhaps not one of the standards used there.) Is there anything in the era of British Administration of colonies/protectorates that might have allowed marking of objects with ENGLAND for export even if they were above Sterling? (We have another old thread on jewelry which mentions Armenian silversmiths of Jerusalem, but goes into no detail in their total work areas.) In short, have we come across a lost standard?