Tray Marked "Posen" was it made by them or retailed?

[Penguin]

Hello,

I have a tray with what appears to be the German "Moon and Crown" mark along with the "835" fineness and the "P" in a shield mark marked "Posen" below.

There is a resource that states from the 20th century until they closed most if not all the wares they sold were manufactured by others and simply retailed by them.

However that resource indicates (if I am interpreting it correctly) if it was manufactured by another it would likely have that manufacturers mark and (I infer, please correct me if this is known to be wrong!) lack the "P" in the crown mark that mine has? (resource https://www.smpub.com/ubb/Forum7/HTML/000054.html )

Could anyone help me understand if this was likely manufactured by them or simply retailed?

Thank you!

[AG2012]

HI,
“P” in a shield without more marks should indicate their own manufacrure.
Regards

[Penguin]

Thank you for the response!

I appreciate you taking the time to answer.

-K

[Bahner]

Hello, a closer look reveals that the P in a shield was punched over another mark, tend to believe it was the Bruckmann eagle. Posen retailed a LOT of Bruckmann holloware and flatware. Though Posen had its own workshop at least until the end of the 19th century (even the name of the chief designer there is known), I believe that Posen did what most other major German jewellers did: they vastly reduced or completely gave up their own production and just retailed pieces like that. It was not uncommon to have the pieces made by the original silverware manufacturer without a maker's mark, then the retailer would add his mark or one of his marks later to make people believe he actually made this. Still works today in many cases. The company of "Lazarus Posen Ww." (for widow) was officially registerd in Frankfurt/M. in February 1874 but it was also listed as having been active before that, though unregistered. The company of Lazarus Jacob Posen was struck from the Frankfurt register at the same time, which would imply that L. Posen had died (shortly ?) before that. The Berlin branch of Posen was founded to my knowledge in early 1884 (possibly even earlier ?). Regards, Bahner

[Penguin]

Hello and thanks for taking your time to write this answer!

When I looked up the marks for Bruckmann it showed I had already looked at that reference page when I was trying to research this. I got the impression from the "P" in crown that it looked like it had at least been double stamped (but one of my earlier impressions was it looked like it could have been a Prussian eagle of some sort). I should have included these thoughts in my original post.

Upon reinspection I think it is likely the Posen mark was stamped over another mark that bares a resemblance to an eagle.

Looking at the reference page for Bruckmann & Sohne ( https://www.silvercollection.it/WORLDSI ... SOHNE.html ) I feel my "moon" mark matches one shown but my crown not so much. If anyone has a link or reference to any more material on their marks I would very much appreciate it.

So I infer the only marks applied by Posen would be the "Posen" and the "P in crown" over the original makers mark? I imagine the assay marks would have had to been applied by the original maker?

Thank you for sharing your knowledge.

-K

[Bahner]

Hello, crown and halfmoon may vary, their shape rarely give good clues. Would agree that POSEN and the P were added later, the other marks are in my opinion those of the original maker. Regards, Bahner