Silver marrow scoop dated 1821 - maker and origin ?

[samtron76df]

I am trying to track down the origin and maker for a silver marrow scoop recently acquired. It is 8.5" long and has the mark of GT or CT and is dated 1821. Someone thought it might be a wedding engraving or possibly a shooting society award from Norway or somewhere in Scandinavia. Any info appreciated...

[samtron76df]

[Qrt.S]

Most likely it is a shooting reward/price from a shooting association in Denmark. Unfortunately Danish makers are rather poorly documented and many are still unknown to name. Therefore I'm unable to tell neither the maker nor the town. I cannot find any trace of any Danish makers punching CT/GT in early 19th century. The modern way of spelling Skyde Selskab is Skyteselskab.
Let's hope somebody else could fill in the blanks. There is also a minor possibility that the spoon would be from Norway, but I don't think so. I didn't either find any suitable Norwegian maker, so...?
The problem here is also the deficient marking typical for both Denmark and partly Norway. Anyway, I would guess Denmark.

[samtron76df]

Thank you for the reply. Hopefully there is someone out there who has seen something like this before from that area. I looked up shooting clubs and there is the Royal Danish Shooting Society and maybe the engraved cross signifies something related to them. The letters to the left of the makers mark are also a question... I see an A, but the next letter is not discernible to me...

[Aguest]

::::: Is this a double marrow scoop with the scoop part on both ends? ::::: I've never seen the double marrow scoop made in Scandinavia before, even the Jensen marrow scoops have a single scoop on one end, I was just thinking about the rarity of this piece by a Scandinavian maker. :::::

[samtron76df]

Yes it has scoops at both ends. It is also known as a "reversible" scoop where the scoops are opposite directions of each other. I was thinking that there is the possibility that this was made somewhere else and imported to Denmark. I know that it reads "shooting society" in Danish but I had originally thought it had said 2 names - S Kyde and S Askal. I thought that by the capitalization's after the the S. Don't know how the Danish language is written - if it is indeed common to use capitals within words. The mark closely resembles the mark of George Tyler of Boston shown in one reference guide. I did some research and Denmark and the US had hundreds of ship trading voyages between each other around the turn of the century. Kyde and Askal also appear to be last names of Scottish origin. Just thoughts until a more definitive attribution can be made..

[Aguest]

:::; It always reminded me of the Irish provincial hallmark of Carden Terry :::: But I've never seen that hallmark alone without the "STERLING" stamp. ::::
:::::: Now thinking about it, if Carden Terry was provincial and didn't have official assay marks on his silver, why wouldn't a piece exist without the "STERLING" stamp accompanying it because that "STERLING" stamp was applied by Carden Terry himself? ::::: Carden Terry became a partnership with Jane Williams in 1807, so if this is a later piece you would expect to see the {CT/IW} hallmark :::: Now thinking about it, since this is a marrow scoop, there may have been no room for the complete [CT/IW] hallmark because it would have been too large for the narrow piece of metal upon which it would have been applied. ::::: So only a [CT] hallmark was stamped and the "STERLING" hallmark was omitted because there is definitely no room for that hallmark on this marrow scoop. :::::

:::: Carden Terry passed away in 1821 :::: I really think this is Carden Terry working in with Jane Williams but for some reason only the {CT} was applied with the "STERLING" omitted :::::

[Aguest]

:::: "The firm operated until shortly after the decease of Carden Terry in 1821." ::::
:::: The hallmark on this marrow scoop is extremely sharp so is it possible that Jane Williams decided to make a new punch just prior to the death of Carden Terry in July 1821 and this hallmark is from the very brief period of time when the firm operated without Carden Terry? :::::

[samtron76df]

I was able to get this XRF tested and it it is sterling...

[Aguest]

:::: What do you think now that it's been XRF verified as sterling silver? :::: I realize the Carden Terry theory is rather speculative. :::::

[samtron76df]

I think it is likely Provincial - Irish or Scottish. I was trained to look at marks to make connections to makers in exact fashion. This doesn't match the known Carden Terry font/style exactly - but it could be by him. Somewhere out there is a matching mark on another piece of silver that will eventually turn up with an attribution. I have not had time to really do proper research... but the difference in font/mark construction does make a difference often times.

Thank you for looking at this. These mysteries help us learn and keep us collecting.

[Aguest]

:::: There is a listing for Charles Tocheti (Aberdeen) but no dates of working & no example by him can be found. ::::::
:::::: Nothing else to do for now until another piece of the puzzle shows up. :::::::::

[Aguest]

::::: One last thing of note is that the construction of your marrow scoop does not match the construction of Carden Terry/(Jane Williams) marrow scoops of which there are several archived. ::::: Even if you put this marrow scoop in the hands of the most pre-eminent English silver collectors I doubt that they could conclusively say that it is Carden Terry. :::::

[Truls J Tonsberg]

(admin edit - see Posting Requirements )

[Silverstone]

Dear Samton76df,

your spoon is obviously from Norway.
I cannot find a trace of any norwegian makers hallmark CT/GT in the book "Norsk Sølv" by Sigrid Wegge Tandberg.

But I can tell you something else.
The "double-spoon" has an engraving:
"St. Skyde Selskap" – 4 Mch (march)1821

1769 was the founding of the "Bergenske Skyde-Selskab", which lasted til 1824.

The shooting took place at Nøsteboden, part of the monastery "Nonneseter", which was found in the 12 Century; surrounding of "Danckert Krohns Stiftelsen" (Kong Oscarsgate 54 i Bergen) and "Skivebakken".
(skive = disk + bakken = hill)

The german trading company "The Hanse" brought the custom to Bergen and Skiven to this monastery.

1497 were three german craftsmen allowed to shoot birds on this ground, a game they knew from Europe.
They called this place "Jerusalem".
This explains the kross.

King Christia IV. took part at this competion, which was called «skivespillet».
Today this "skive" is exhibited in the museum Tyskebryggen i Bergen.

"Bergenske Skyde-Selskab" was indeed a very exclusive community with high membership fees.
Ladies were a long time allowed to visit the meetings, but they were not allowed to become a member.

In 1800 the meetings were only for "gentlemen", because they thought, it is no fun to have the wifes around.

The members called the attraction „Shooting the Parrot“, although they were later using discs.

The last shooting took place in 1824.
The winner became twelve spoons of Jens Kahrs, a silver manufacturer from Bergen.

Here is a foto of a coffe pot from Friderick Mincke, which was 1794 a premium from the Skyde-Selskab i Arendal/Norway.

a)



Your spoon may be produced at another place than Bergen.
The members, for example shipowners or trading people, had connections at home and abroad.

But why did they give such a "double-spoon" as a present later on?

2004 was an exhibition in Zürich.
Such a type of spoon from the 16 th century was shown, made of maple-wood.

b)




Earlier in some courtrooms this type of spoon was offered to a husband and his wife, if they had never ending quarrels.
They were locked into a room and had to eat a soup together with only one spoon.
It is also known as a "reversible" spoon where the two "laffe" are in opposite directions of each other.

This was only possible, if both agreed, who was allowed to eat.
In Switzerland such a spoon is hanging on the court-wall as a warning.

Kind regards
Silverstone

Lit.:

Wander, Karl Friedrich Wilhelm, Deutsches Sprichwörter-Lexikon, Band 5, Leipzig 1880
Det gode liv, Hansakontoret
Det Bergenske Skyde-Selskab, av Knut L. Espelid
Papegøyeskyting, Erik Ivarson Blindheim
Foto a): Norsk sølv, Gullsmeder gjennom 600 år, Jorunn Fossberg, Sigrid Wegge Tandberg, S. 383
Foto b): Schweizerisches Nationalmuseum, Claudia Walder

[Silverstone]

Dear members,

here is a very old „fugleskytingspremie“ - 08.08.1792
The spoon is made by Friderik Mincke, Arendal - 1745–15.012.1804




Lit.:
Norsk Sølv, Gullsmeder gjennom 600 år, Jorunn Fossberg, Sigrid Wegge Tandberg
S. 317, No. 1409, No. 1410

Regards
Silverstone

[samtron76df]

Thank you very much for the information.

[Hephaistos]

@ Silverstone & Co
Your story of Bergenian bowmen has triggered me to expand on the subject, and occasionally, there is an absolute unique silver treasure to illuminate my story (maybe this comprehensive essay rather would fit under the 925/1000 Silver stories). The shooting contests and its expressions in silver memorabilia are reminiscences of cross-border fertilization by a specific social category, migrating German tradesmen consolidating the trade monopoly Hansa League, based in Lübeck, from medieval times and onward. The Hanseatic cities ranged from Bergen, Norway and London in West to Novgorod in East and to Brügge in South. German traders and ship-owners colonized, started guilds and even ruled the port cities as a social elite.
The parrot shooting contest tradition, with bow and arrow, known in Continental Northern Europe generally was executed as sniping a wooden and painted parrot (popinjay) put at the top of a high pole. Hitting it gave points, shooing it down an undisputable victory.
In Tallinn, Estonia, the German traders and merchantmen, mostly young and unmarried founded, parallel to other German guilds, a spectacular guild, The Brotherhood of Blackheads (Schwartshäupter) and they chose, by any reason, the Egyptian black martyr St Maurice as their patron, as seen in the coat of arms.


The Blackheads organized, except parties for the guilds amusement, a self-defense force, a voluntary fire brigade and mutual support, parrot shooting contests within the Brotherhood and other guilds, the Great Guild, the St Canute Guild, guild of artisans and craftsmen, all maintaining this masculine sport. The Blackhead members becoming wealthy built an impressive house in Tallinn, only surpassed by that of the Blackheads in Riga, an assembled an imposing silver assembly. The Blackheads in Tallinn survived to 1940 up to the Soviet occupation of Estonia. The silver treasure was hidden abroad and is now returned and exhibited.


The shooting competition was originally executed by ordinary longbow and arrow but was later adopted to crossbow and was exercised springtime from Easter to Whitsuntide, by safety reasons outside the city wall. The sport event and the following celebrations occurred on Sundays and became so popular that the church services for three Sundays after Easter was cancelled, lacking of visitors.
The winner of the parrot shooting, the Bowking, was the temporally awarded the triumph ensign to be carried in a silver chain in the final parade of inhabitants and musicians, after which a big party begun. In Estonia this habit was known since the 14th century, and remained to the middle of the 17th century.

Popinjay, parrot, papageno, silver, origin probably Tallinn, 16 century, first half. Movable wings and partially guilt, eyes of red garnet. The only remaining Bowking price in Estonia, belonging to the Brotherhood of Blackheads. Exhibited in Niguliste Museum, Silver Chamber.

[Silverstone]

Dear Hephaestus,

thank you for your detailed informations about the silver treasure of the Blackheads.
I am sure that many members of this Silver-Forum will appreciate your explanations in combination with the beautiful photos.

In the book "Baltic Silver" by Annelore Leistikov is a photo of a parrot-goblet, p. 91


See p. 81:
"During the rifle-festival the rifle-corps ...enjoyed plenty of beer...
A gilded goblet in the shape of a parrot sitting on a naturally shaped branch probably belonged to the Riga rifle-men. ... His head is detachable for drinking.
The trophy bears the master's mark LM. It could be the master Lorenz Martens (1612-1619).
After 1658 ... parrot shooting is no longer detectable.”

“The Silver Treasure of the Riga Blackheads Company” (catalog of an exhibition in Bremen, Roselius-Haus, March 23 - June 1, 1997 and an exhibition in Bielefeld, Huelsmann Foundation, June 21 - September 28, 1997) presents large photos of goblets, tankards, jardinieres etc. from Riga St. Petersburg, Libau, Danzig, Berlin, Hanau and London.


Source: © WFB/Focke Strangmann

In Hamburg was a renewal of the Brotherhood in 1961 with members from Riga.
1980 the brotherhood settles in Bremen and is registered as an association under the name "Compagnie der Schwarzen Häupter aus Riga".
Members no longer have to be born in Riga and getting married is no longer a reason for exclusion.
The company currently has 23 members, German merchants who aim to preserve their treasures, their history and the traditions of the Hanseatic cities.

It was a tradition among the Blackheads that each merchant donate an item of silver upon his initiation into the brotherhood.
In 1915 the silver collection in Riga consisted of 3400 silver works of art...
However, a large part of the treasure had disappeared, as well as part of the archive...
Now the remaining part of the magnificent, once enormous treasure has found its home in the Ludwig-Roselius-Museum in Bremen.
The company of the Blackheads from Riga is also based in Bremen.

Once a year, the silver works of art leave the museum for a day to decorate the table at the company's traditional fraternity meal."
„Kulturgut, das nie in Gebrauch ist, ist verlorenes Kulturgut.“ (A cultural treasure that is not used is a lost treasure).

In the Museum of the History of Riga and Navigation you can admire many works of art from the silver treasure of the Blackheads.
Source: Lettischer Verein, Hamburg e.V.

Regards
Silverstone

[Silverstone]

Hephaistos!
That's the correct name.
Silverstone needs new spectacles!