18th century ???

[blonde_minx]

Hi
Im looking for some help, this lovely box seems to have early french hallmarks, G with a crown dates it to circa 1723-24, the other marks im just not to sure, they are on the inside of the top, could this image to the box be religious is is set under glass with a silk hand stiched background. Any help would be much appreciated as im confused.
Thanks
Mandy

[blakstone]

The marks are consistent with Paris marks, with the charge mark for small silver pieces used by fermier Julien Alaterre 1768-1774, during which time the jurande mark "G" was used July 1770 to July 1771. Unfortunately, the maker's mark is too worn to read; there also should be a decharge mark somewhere on the piece. The work looks a little crude to me, and the cloth under the crystal suggests a relic of some sort. In all, it seems genuine to me, but I would not say with any certainty without the opportunity to inspect it in person.

Hope this helps!

[blonde_minx]

Hi
Thanks for your help very interesting, i have found the discharge mark on the side of the body, i have looked into this mark and it also dates the box to the 18th century ... 1781-1789. i think this is the date
best wishes
Mandy

[GiulyF]

Hi
Thanks for your help very interesting, i have found the discharge mark on the side of the body, i have looked into this mark and it also dates the box to the 18th century ... 1781-1789. i think this is the date
best wishes
Mandy

Dear Mandy, I would agree with Blakstone's reservations about the hallmarks, in fact in this case there is a hallmark of the maison commune "crowned G" which is not at all compatible with the dating you report of 1781-1789, it is not possible that there is just the decharge mark without being accompanied by the charge one, it may have been erased or worn by time but you should see traces of it, for these years, 1768-1774, the exhaust decharge mark that you should find on the piece is one of these on the image, which still looks a lot like yours. I believe that the correct dating is that of 1768-74 but it is there to clarify the nature of the discharge mark.

[JayT]

Hello
There seems to be some confusion about the dating of the marks on this box, and misreading of the date letter and discharge marks. Specifically:
-The poinçon de jurande or date letter mark for Paris occurs in cycles. In the 18th C, the crowned G occurred three times: 1723-24, 1747-48, and 1770-71.
-There always must be concordance between all the marks. To avoid mistakes, it is always best to start with the charge mark, or poinçon de charge. Thus as Blakstone stated, the charge mark found on this object was used from 1768-1774. This is in concordance with the crowned G date letter for 1770-71.
-Finally, the discharge mark of a helmeted head is that used 1768-1775, in perfect concordance with the charge mark.

Hope this helps to clarify dating of this box to 1770-71.

[blonde_minx]

Thank you all so much for your help, it was very confusing but now it makes more sense.

Best wishes
Mandy

[GiulyF]

Hello
There seems to be some confusion about the dating of the marks on this box, and misreading of the date letter and discharge marks. Specifically:
-The poinçon de jurande or date letter mark for Paris occurs in cycles. In the 18th C, the crowned G occurred three times: 1723-24, 1747-48, and 1770-71.
-There always must be concordance between all the marks. To avoid mistakes, it is always best to start with the charge mark, or poinçon de charge. Thus as Blakstone stated, the charge mark found on this object was used from 1768-1774. This is in concordance with the crowned G date letter for 1770-71.
-Finally, the discharge mark of a helmeted head is that used 1768-1775, in perfect concordance with the charge mark.

Hope this helps to clarify dating of this box to 1770-71.

Dear JayT
my reservations about a correct dating for the years are due to the fact that the decharge mark is not perfectly identical to the one indicated for this period 1768-1774, as you can see from the Tardy page that I uploaded. The decharge mark for the years 1781-1789 is always a man with a helmet, and although the "mold of the cast" (pass me the term" within which it is impressed is far from being the correct one, it leads us to believe, together with what is written above, that the artefact could not have been thus undoubtedly placed in the years 1768-1774. By the way I'm convinced it's from 1770 :-p

[AG2012]

What is the box made of ? Wood and lacquer ? Does silver mounting fits the rim;looks rather loose (arrow A) ? Why is the hole in silver mounting damaged (arrow B) and copper (brass) nail is practically useless ?
Needs to be examined more closely.
Regards

[blonde_minx]

Hi
The box is made from Tortoiseshell, the rim frame fits well just missing some pins ( rivets ) understandable for the age
Thanks
Mandy

[JayT]

@GiulyF
With practice and experience (in my personal case 30+ years) you’ll realize that a helmet head Paris discharge mark occurs several times in the 18th C. It is the association of the date letter, charge, and discharge marks together that help to date the object.
Good luck in your continuing research on French silver!