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Mystery Spoon - 1869 - AF - Lady Wings Motif

Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2015 11:07 am
by natNYC
A small spoon with an interest organic form.
Marked "1869" on front and then an interesting lady with flowing hair above a winged figure.
The back is marked AF and 13
the spoon measures just 4.25 inches
it looks like there is a gold wash on the spoon part

any info ideas welcome, thank you!

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Re: Mystery Spoon - 1869 - AF - Lady Wings Motif

Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2015 2:23 pm
by Theoderich
I have a fork (from WILKENS) in this style.

Re: Mystery Spoon - 1869 - AF - Lady Wings Motif

Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2015 3:41 pm
by natNYC
For your wilkens fork, does it have the same three markings: lady, 1869 and on the back?

Thank you!

Re: Mystery Spoon - 1869 - AF - Lady Wings Motif

Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2015 9:15 pm
by doc
I think this is most likely a Continental piece, and not American coin.

Re: Mystery Spoon - 1869 - AF - Lady Wings Motif

Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 3:57 pm
by Theoderich
It is from Germany.

Re: Mystery Spoon - 1869 - AF - Lady Wings Motif

Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 7:30 pm
by Aguest
Yes I thought Germany candidate most probable. The date of 1869 seems a bit early as this spoon seems much more Art Nouveau style with the flowing lines and the image of the female form. Perhaps this spoon was ahead of its time, artistically. The other image seems like a British Family Crest with wings and a sphere, and how did that get there? This is indeed a mystery spoon, and personally I find it very interesting because the artistry seems of higher quality than most other German spoons I have seen circa 1869.

Re: Mystery Spoon - 1869 - AF - Lady Wings Motif

Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 11:31 pm
by Traintime
Whoa, I'm lost. I don't see flowing hair. I see a dancer, possibly even male, with a swirling ribbon, clothed beneath the waist in tights and maybe soft ballet type shoes. Over the head are Mickey Mouse Ear-like dark circles that remind of a Spanish hat worn by matadors. So how have we concluded Germany and what is this (event?) from 1869.

Re: Mystery Spoon - 1869 - AF - Lady Wings Motif

Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 1:31 am
by Bahner
Hello and yes, this is a Wilkens pattern from the late 19th century. AF is most likely the retailer. It will be near impossible to find out who, as there is no complete list of German jewellers and goldsmiths of the time. The pattern usually came in 12 Lot, so this is of somewhat better quality. The engraving of the year is quite crudely done, the engraving of the winged person quite expertly. I wonder whether there were two engravers involved, at different times. This is not a coat of arms, so this was not done for a noble family, but possibly for an institution of some kind. No idea, though. Best wishes, Bahner

Re: Mystery Spoon - 1869 - AF - Lady Wings Motif

Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 9:44 am
by silverfan
I think the pattern was created in England around 1850 by Adam, if I remember well. Later it was issued by Wilkens, Bremen in a similar form under No. 93 (different at the top of the handle) still with the halfmoon as the old mark of Wilkens. I saw the pattern also executed by other makers. AF will be the maker and 13 surely means 13 Loth = 812,5/1000 silver.
Regards silverfan

Re: Mystery Spoon - 1869 - AF - Lady Wings Motif

Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 12:28 pm
by Theoderich
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this ist fortuna - like the Coat of Arms from Glückstadt

13 was not usaly for Dresden - but there is an example with 13
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I think [AF] is Moritz A. Fickert
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Re: Mystery Spoon - 1869 - AF - Lady Wings Motif

Posted: Sat Feb 13, 2016 11:37 am
by natNYC
Thank you all so much for your help and insight

Re: Mystery Spoon - 1869 - AF - Lady Wings Motif

Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2016 7:03 am
by R ingo
Hello natNYC,

I have bought very similar spoons, with marks of Rudolf Baumann from the city Posen /Poznan in Poland with a fineness from 68,7 %.

It is interesting, that this pattern was made in so different silver alloys. So I think, this pattern was probably produced in different places.
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Concerning the engraved family coat of arms with Fortuna on the bowl with sail and wings I found very similar examples from the family "Wetter" in Switzerland.
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Kind regards,
Ringo

Re: Mystery Spoon - 1869 - AF - Lady Wings Motif

Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2016 8:53 am
by Dendriet
After all these reactions have read, I could not fail to respond.
Unmistakable in this case, I will have more of these, I'm just like all of you a big magpie. :))))))

Hallmark of Austria-Hungary
A = Vienna
Makers mark: M & I (?)
Loth 13
Date 185?

Best regards
Dendriet
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Re: Mystery Spoon - 1869 - AF - Lady Wings Motif

Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2016 10:28 am
by juantotree
Hi,

I have always known this as the Lily Pattern, as in this pair of 1878 spoons by Henry Holland.

Martin

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Re: Mystery Spoon - 1869 - AF - Lady Wings Motif

Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 6:31 am
by R ingo
Hello,

here an may be interesting appendix.

The same spoons with the same measurements, weights, engraving and makers (or retailers) mark (Rudolf Baumann from the city Posen /Poznan) , but allegedly with different silver alloys.

Happy Easter, Ringo

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Re: Mystery Spoon - 1869 - AF - Lady Wings Motif

Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 9:30 am
by silverfan
It seems that the pattern was designed by George William Adams and the patent of this design certified on 21stof January 1850 by the UK Patent Office.
Regards silverfan

Re: Mystery Spoon - 1869 - AF - Lady Wings Motif

Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 9:54 am
by natNYC
Super helpful, thank you!

Re: Mystery Spoon - 1869 - AF - Lady Wings Motif

Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 9:12 am
by Goldstein

Re: Mystery Spoon - 1869 - AF - Lady Wings Motif

Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:31 pm
by silverfan
juantotree is right telling that this flatware commonly is called "Lily pattern". It was created by George William Adams (working 1840-1873) for the World Exhibition London 1851.
Regards silverfan