Does anybody have any views as to whether this teaspoon is Robert Goble Senior or Junior.
11cm in lenght & 7 grams.
Many thanks in advance.
Karl
Robert Goble of Cork
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DublinFusiler
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Robert Goble of Cork
Good morning,
Does anybody have any views as to whether this teaspoon is Robert Goble Senior or Junior.
11cm in lenght & 7 grams.
Many thanks in advance.
Karl
Does anybody have any views as to whether this teaspoon is Robert Goble Senior or Junior.
11cm in lenght & 7 grams.
Many thanks in advance.
Karl
Re: Robert Goble of Cork
Hi Karl,
It's a difficult one to call. I suppose the likelihood would be more towards Robert jun. due to the strong central rib on the front of the spoon, something that I would associate with around the 1720's and although Robert sen. may well have been alive at the date, he may well have ceased working by that time.
It would be good to hear the thoughts of others.
Trev.
It's a difficult one to call. I suppose the likelihood would be more towards Robert jun. due to the strong central rib on the front of the spoon, something that I would associate with around the 1720's and although Robert sen. may well have been alive at the date, he may well have ceased working by that time.
It would be good to hear the thoughts of others.
Trev.
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DublinFusiler
- Posts: 25
- Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2014 1:50 pm
Re: Robert Goble of Cork
You are a gentleman Trev, thank you.
P.S. Could you recommend a silver restorer?
Karl
P.S. Could you recommend a silver restorer?
Karl
Re: Robert Goble of Cork
Douglas Bennet says this style of spoon with the handle turned up at the end and a ridge down the centre was introduced about 1710. The online seller suggested c1705 for this teaspoon which is just too early.
As Trev said, it's difficult to be certain. Robert Goble Snr was probably dead by 1722 according to M.S.D Westropp in The Goldsmiths of Cork (also the date given in Cork Silver and Gold) but whether he was still working at that time is not known. He would have been at least in his late sixties by 1722.
In Cork Silver and Gold, Cork spoons with these central ridges by Caleb Rotherham and William Clarke are dated c1720 (page 87). A well known Dublin auctioneer who handles a lot of Irish silver also dated a similar style Cork hash spoon with central ridge by William Clarke to c1720. It would probably be safer to assume your teaspoon is by Robert Goble Jnr and c1720 too.
As to having it repaired, there is nobody in Dublin whom I could recommend so best send it to London. Hopefully, someone can suggest a repairer there.
As Trev said, it's difficult to be certain. Robert Goble Snr was probably dead by 1722 according to M.S.D Westropp in The Goldsmiths of Cork (also the date given in Cork Silver and Gold) but whether he was still working at that time is not known. He would have been at least in his late sixties by 1722.
In Cork Silver and Gold, Cork spoons with these central ridges by Caleb Rotherham and William Clarke are dated c1720 (page 87). A well known Dublin auctioneer who handles a lot of Irish silver also dated a similar style Cork hash spoon with central ridge by William Clarke to c1720. It would probably be safer to assume your teaspoon is by Robert Goble Jnr and c1720 too.
As to having it repaired, there is nobody in Dublin whom I could recommend so best send it to London. Hopefully, someone can suggest a repairer there.
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airgeadoir
- Posts: 9
- Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 1:00 pm
Re: Robert Goble of Cork
Karl,
I concur with the view that the spoon is far more likely to have been made by Robert Goble the younger c.1720s. I say Robert Goble the younger because I have not seen evidence to assert that he is a son of the elder. He may in fact be a nephew, or even a cousin. Any thoughts on this point by anyone?
As regards restoration I cannot recommend anyone, Sorry.
John
I concur with the view that the spoon is far more likely to have been made by Robert Goble the younger c.1720s. I say Robert Goble the younger because I have not seen evidence to assert that he is a son of the elder. He may in fact be a nephew, or even a cousin. Any thoughts on this point by anyone?
As regards restoration I cannot recommend anyone, Sorry.
John
Re: Robert Goble of Cork
Hi John,
Welcome to the Forum.
'The Huguenot Settlements in Ireland' - 2009, by Grace Lawless Lee has a couple of possible useful references regarding the Goble family, she notes:
From an entry in the Vestry Book of Christ Church, dated 1676, it would seem they acted as bankers as well as goldsmiths, for the churchwardens ordered that a sum that had been bequeathed to the parish, the interest on which was to go to the poor weekly "in bread" should be "lett out to Mr. Robert Goble the Jeweller"
An interesting footnote to above reference states "The writer has been informed that the last representative of the family in the City took his mother's name of Barry.
There is also a reference to Robert Goble Jnr. having died in 1737.
Trev.
Welcome to the Forum.
'The Huguenot Settlements in Ireland' - 2009, by Grace Lawless Lee has a couple of possible useful references regarding the Goble family, she notes:
From an entry in the Vestry Book of Christ Church, dated 1676, it would seem they acted as bankers as well as goldsmiths, for the churchwardens ordered that a sum that had been bequeathed to the parish, the interest on which was to go to the poor weekly "in bread" should be "lett out to Mr. Robert Goble the Jeweller"
An interesting footnote to above reference states "The writer has been informed that the last representative of the family in the City took his mother's name of Barry.
There is also a reference to Robert Goble Jnr. having died in 1737.
Trev.
Re: Robert Goble of Cork
Cecil C. Woods, in The Goldsmiths of Cork, published in The Journal of the Royal Society of Antiquaries of Ireland , Ser. 5, Vol. V, pp. 218-223, 1895, mentions: 1719, Robert Goble Jun, goldsmith, warden.airgeadoir wrote:Karl,
I concur with the view that the spoon is far more likely to have been made by Robert Goble the younger c.1720s. I say Robert Goble the younger because I have not seen evidence to assert that he is a son of the elder. He may in fact be a nephew, or even a cousin. Any thoughts on this point by anyone?
As regards restoration I cannot recommend anyone, Sorry.
John
M.S.D. Westropp, in The Goldsmiths of Cork, published in the Journal of the Cork Historical & Archaeological Society, 1906, similarly mentions: 1719. Robert Goble, Jun, goldsmith, warden.
This to me suggests he was a son but I agree, it's not conclusive. As those venerable scholars of Cork silver refer to him as Jun, should we not do likewise? There may be evidence in M.S.D. Westropp's papers but I have no idea where there are kept.
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airgeadoir
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- Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 1:00 pm
Re: Robert Goble of Cork
Gentlemen,
Thanks for those helpful points and comments.
It may be of interest to note in reference to the description of Goble senior as a "jeweller", that the term is still understood in Cork as a goldsmith with the specific capability of undetaking the fine work associated with that particular aspect of the trade.
Kind regards,
John
Thanks for those helpful points and comments.
It may be of interest to note in reference to the description of Goble senior as a "jeweller", that the term is still understood in Cork as a goldsmith with the specific capability of undetaking the fine work associated with that particular aspect of the trade.
Kind regards,
John