Irish creamer with confusing marks

dmay · Post by **dmay** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 11:19 am

I just purchased a very nice Irish Georgian creamer with a collection of marks that I have almost figured out, but need some help. The piece has the mark for Daniel Egan and has the marks for Dublin 1802. It also has the mark of Clark & West. I have seen at least one other piece with these same markings, for which the Egan mark was designated as the maker's mark and the Clark & West mark was considered the retailer's mark. The source was a very knowledgeable dealer, but was wondering whether this is the case, or are they reversed, as I know Daniel Egan was later a very well known retailer.

The other confusing part is that is it also marked "WEST", which the other piece I saw was not. In Jackson, there are a couple of pieces listed in his list of Dublin's maker's that includes a mark of WEST, which he attributes to being made for Alderman West. These date to a couple of years before my piece, but fit within the overall timeframe of my piece. I was wondering whether the WEST mark is applicable to the West of Clark & West, or whether it is Alderman West.

The piece is being shipped to me (I saw it in a shop, but found the marks too confusing so didn't purchase it right away. Went home, did some Internet searching and got buyer's remorse, so I called the next morning and bought it over the phone.) I can post photos once it arrives, but if anyone can shed any light in the meantime, it would be most welcome.

nigel le sueur · Post by **nigel le sueur** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 3:25 am

dmay

My knowledge of lrish silver is limited, but l think what is confusing is "Alderman West" it should read Alderman,West who were retailers c1821, when l first saw the question my first thoughts were an Alderman West ie council official but this is not the case.

Could it be possible that it was made by Daniel Egan, then sold by retailers West & Son c1802, and then at a later date sold again by Alderman,West who re-stamped it?

Regards

Nigel

larkfield · Post by **larkfield** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 5:10 am

Another with limited Irish silver knowledge, and without seeing the actual marks, therefor assuming what these marks are. Daniel Egan probably made the piece. As far as I am aware the Clarke and West would be John Clarke and Jacob West who were wholesalers and I believe date after 1802
The WEST mark should be Jacob West which would date from about 1801, and who was made Alderman in later years. My guess would be that the latter two marks could have been put on at the same time.

dmay · Post by **dmay** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 5:51 am

A bit of Internet searching of Alderman West probably was in order prior to this posting! Thank you for the clarification, nigel and larkfield. I was trying to find out whether the West of Clarke & West was also the West of Alderman West, so this has been most helpful.

I will post a photo once the creamer arrives.

dmay · Post by **dmay** » Sun Apr 15, 2007 5:00 pm

At last, the creamer has arrived! I thought I'd share a photo of it, along with the marks. The date mark (which is located to the left of the C&W mark) is too worn to photograph, but it is an E, which is actually the mark for 1801 (sorry about the incorrect date above-I was working from memory).

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