Earliest Marks I've Ever Seen for London

[collectingfool]

Went a little nuts today at an antiques shop in NYC. Bought this sweet cup with the earliest London marks I've ever seen. I think the Lion and Leopard mark show this is 16th or 17th century but unfortunately they aren't very clear marks (are they ever when it matters?). The secret I think will be deciphering whatever that first mark is (Dragon? Sea Serpent?). I can't find any reference for those types of makers marks in early London. Can anyone point me to an online resource? I'm willing to do the work but never looked for this before so no idea how to find these early maker's marks that aren't initials. Thank you in advance!

[oel]

Not for London but made in Germany, late 19th-early 20th century with Hanau pseudo marks.
See Gebrūder Dingeldein:
https://www.925-1000.com/Fgerman_hanau_marks_01.html

Peter.

[AG2012]

Hi,
Peter is right about the maker:
Gebruder Dingeldein (Dingeldein Brothers), Hanau firm was founded in 1868 by brothers Friedrich Otto (ca. 1838-1901) and Freidrich Wilhelm (ca. 1838-1910) Dingeldein. Friedrich Otto's son August Ernst Dingeldein (1874-1962) was their successor, and married Margarethe Kurz (1876-1947), the daughter of Karl Kurz (1851-1936), which is how the Dingeldein and Kurz companies came to be merged in 1911. He did open a New York showroom assisted by his sons Karl August (1901-1965) and Otto Friedrich (1906-1991) Dingeldein, both of whom moved to America permanently in 1927, where they became prominent silversmiths in New Orleans, Louisiana and Cape Girardeau, Missouri, respectively.
I suppose your cup is made between 1901 - 1921 because the same set of pseudo British marks is often seen with Austria - Hungary import mark (far left), which was used 1901 - 1921. Also meaning, your cup was made in Germany (Hanau) i.e. before they moved to America. Otherwise, Austria - Hungary import mark would be illogical.


Regards

[dognose]

See also: viewtopic.php?f=38&t=19355&p=154473&hil ... IN#p154473

Trev.

[collectingfool]

Thank you so much for the replies! That would explain why I couldn't find what I was looking for. I guess I wildly overspent on this piece. At least I know the guy so I'll get it back on something else. Thank you again. Amazing amount of knowledge on here, an invaluable resource. I do appreciate it.

[AG2012]

Do not get disappointed;every collector has bumped into Hanau.There is a lesson,though: miracles do not happen very often (extraordinary pieces in garage sales and thrift shops).
Good luck.

[AllSeasons]

Do not get disappointed;every collector has bumped into Hanau.There is a lesson,though: miracles do not happen very often (extraordinary pieces in garage sales and thrift shops).
Good luck.

Personally, I love Hanau silver. The earlier pieces are actually quite well made, always with a lot of detail that tends to remind you of the fairy tales. They were "fake" in the sense that they imitated even earlier pieces, with the use of spurious/fantasy marks. But I collect them, as a form of poor man's ancient silver. One thing to watch out for is to not get faked by pieces that fake Hanau silver. I guess when someone tries to counterfeit the counterfeit, you could say imitation is the highest form of flattery.