Silver Torah Crowns

[lbabadzh]

Hi, We have two silver Torah Crowns in the collection. I am trying to compile more information on them.
There are three silver hallmarks on them. The first one I deduced to be "84" for silver 875/1000. From my research, the second one should identify the origin and the third dates the silver object. Can anyone translate them for me?

[AG2012]

84 in Persian mumerals; number 4 is distinctive because it`s different from Arabic.
It indicates the purity of 840 (84%); it is wrongly identified as Russian 84 zolotnik standard.
The rest is unknown to me.
Regards

[lbabadzh]

Thank you AG2012!

[oel]

Hi Ibadadzh, welcome to the forum.

You are right in your assumption, Persian(farsi) number ۸۴ on silver for 875/000 fineness.
In the 18th to early 20th centuries the silversmiths working in the geographic regions of northern Persia were strongly influenced by the neighbouring Imperial Russian Empire. At the time, Russia used the Zolotnik System in which the 84 purity designation equated to a fineness of 875 silver. The imitative use of the 84 designation, seen in Persian, Arabic and sometimes western numeral, was adapted in Persia and Arab territories, also as an 875 silver fineness, and was used especially for goods destined for export and the tourist trade.

Peter.

Source: Hallmark Research Institute volume II Asia, Middle East, Africa Danusia V. Niklewicz, Lindy L. Matula, William B. Whetstone, Iran page 132

[AG2012]

In regard of 84 silver standard in Iran, a Farsi native speaker is needed to contact silver traders and jewelers in Iran.
The answer is straightforward; 84 is 84% silver in the alloy.

The grade for making silver dishes is 84 or 840, but this grade was also used to make jewelry in the past, and that is why some old jewelry has 840 grade.


عیار ساخت ظروف نقره 84 یا 840 است که البته این عیار در گذشته برای ساخت زیورالات نیز
استفاد می شده و به همین دلیل است که برخی از زیورالات قدیمی دارای عیار 840 هستند.

One of the ways to distinguish genuine silver from counterfeit is the silver grade, which is usually a two-digit number for Iranian work such as 84, 90, 92.5 or a three-digit number for foreign work such as 900, 925, along with other product specifications on the back of the work.
Now, for example, the number 84 indicates that the desired alloy consists of 84% silver metal. And the rest of it is made up of other metals such as copper or brass, this number is engraved on it to show the grade and quality of silver.


یکی از راه های تشخیص نقره اصل از تقلبی، عیار نقره است که معمولاً یک عدد دو رقمی برای
کارهای ایرانی مانند 84، 90، 92.5 و یا سه رقمی برای کارهای خارجی مانند 900، 925 به
همراه سایر مشخصات محصول در پشت کار
حالا مثلا عدد 84 نشان می دهد که آلیاژ مورد نظر ا 84% فلز نقره تشکیل شده است. و بقیه آن
از فلزات دیگری مانند مس یا برنج تشکیل شده است که این عدد برای نشان دادن عیار و

[lbabadzh]

Thank you everyone! I will try to find someone who speaks Farsi.

[AG2012]

The real problem with Iranian standards is not the question what 84 is, but the fact they will try their best to use lower standards wherever possible. As tested by our member Amena from Italy some time ago, you can be happy if your item from Iran is over 50% silver.

[oel]

The real problem with Iranian standards is not the question what 84 is, but the fact they will try their best to use lower standards wherever possible. As tested by our member Amena from Italy some time ago, you can be happy if your item from Iran is over 50% silver.

Hi AG2012,
Not true, a biased conclusion based on thin air. From one bad example mentioned in our forum you cannot say this in general about Persian silver.

Without mentioning your sources, it is merely your opinion, it might be taken from the internet.
I stick to my opinion base on Hallmark Research Institute. Persian(farsi) number ۸۴ on silver for 875/000 fineness. In the 18th to early 20th centuries the silversmiths working in the geographic regions of northern Persia were strongly influenced by the neighbouring Imperial Russian Empire. At the time, Russia used the Zolotnik System in which the 84 purity designation equated to a fineness of 875 silver. The imitative use of the 84 designation, seen in Persian, Arabic and sometimes western numeral, was adapted in Persia and Arab territories, also as an 875 silver fineness, and was used especially for goods destined for export and the tourist trade.

On the other hand, it might be interesting if I have my Persian cocktail shaker tested at De Waarborg/Assay office in Gouda. I will share the result with the Forum.https://www.925-1000.com/forum/viewtopi ... er#p115711
Regards,

Peter.



Source: Hallmark Research Institute volume II Asia, Middle East, Africa Danusia V. Niklewicz, Lindy L. Matula, William B. Whetstone, Iran page 132

[AG2012]

https://lionagallery.com/Guide-to-buyin ... ndlesticks

[oel]

https://lionagallery.com/Guide-to-buyin ... ndlesticks Your source; Livona Silver Store is the largest supplier of bridal silver candelabra mirrors in Iran.

Are silversmiths a reliable source for information about their local silver marks? I know from experience, like my own silversmith, most silversmiths know the official silver standards used today but do not know the silver standards used in the past nor the history behind it.
Anyway I agree, silver 84% or 87.5%, the difference in value is peanuts. Based upon today's pure silver price per gram $0.79. 84%= $0.66 per gram and 87.5%= $0.69 per gram, as little as 3 dollar cents per gram.

To me the silver Torah finials look great. In the book; Crowning Glory Silver Torah Ornaments of the Jewish museum, New York, by Rafi Grafman, all silver Persian/Iran Torah finials shown are without (hall) marks.


Peter,

[amena]

Hello Peter
I wish you all the best in testing your shaker.
I have not been very lucky with my two Iranian boxes marked 84: one was 458.7/1000 and the other 477.2/1000
https://www.925-1000.com/forum/viewtopi ... AN#p201785
Fortunately I had paid very little for them
Amena

[oel]

Hello Amena,

Yes, the Persian 84 is not a hallmark, it was applied by the maker. My source state it should be 875/000, you proved your box with the 84 mark is less than 500/000. You paid very little for it, and the intrinsic value is nearly 45% less than we thought it to be. Perhaps we better settle for the artistic value and the beauty of it or... just sell it without the relevant information 😏?
Anyway my shaker was made in 1961 by well known silversmith. I will keep you informed.
http://www.parvareshsilver.com/en/

FYI. According to my source Iranian silver hallmarks used 1967-circa 1979; country hallmark lion with scimitar in double frame for silver 900/000, single frame outline silver 875/000, metal purity mark-84 in Persian for 875 silver, maker's mark-silversmith's name, town mark
Domestic silver hallmarks period 1980-2010, due to embargoes and restrictions on trade, communication and information, no details have been found to support whether there was any hallmarking in this period, perhaps the old hallmarks of the Shah were suspended. Domestic hallmarks 2010- to date, a single stylized S with one square for silver 900/1000, with two squares silver 800/000.

Peter.

Source: Hallmark Research Institute volume II Asia, Middle East, Africa Danusia V. Niklewicz, Lindy L. Matula, William B. Whetstone, Iran page 133

[oel]

Hello,

My Persian cocktail shaker has been tested. See; https://www.925-1000.com/forum/viewtopi ... 28#p214128

Conclusion the Persian numeral ۸۴ should stand for 84 (zolotnik) or 875/1000 parts silver.


Regards,

Peter

[amena]

Hi Peter
I'm happy for you
Conclusion
the Persian numeral ۸۴ should stand for
84 (zolotnik) or 875/1000 parts silver for well known silversmiths.
Stands for 840/1000 parts silver for less serious silversmiths.
Just a conventional number for deceiving silversmiths.
Best
Amena