russian silver tea caddy, makers mark identification

[antiquv]

Just got this amazing massive Russian silver tea caddy, Moscow 1889,
can anyone help with makers mark, I added a ”drawing” of the mark😅

[AG2012]

Most likely India or China modern production with faked marks.
Regards

[antiquv]

Most likely India or China modern production with faked marks.
Regards

Yep, sure shows how knowledgable are you /:

[Mart]

This is the mark of the Loskutov family of silversmiths. From my point of view, they were the best coiners of their time. The best among them was Gerasim Loskutov (ГЛ). He worked mainly for the Sazikov factory, has many awards... but this is not his product, but his equally talented relative.

[AG2012]

Knowledgeable and old enough to stop believing in fairy tales, Santa Claus, Picasso and Rembrandt in garage sale in Butte, Montana, Faberge in thrift shop for $ 10, yet unknown Vermeer in grandfather's attic.
Wait and see what other more ``knowledgeable`` members of the forum have to say about this obvious fake.
An advice, benevolent: enthusiasm is not a valid method of judgement, wishful thinking, either.
Have a nice Sunday.

[antiquv]

thanks, I'm so happy we have such knowlagable and old enough experts
I sold items at Christies after "experts" like you told me they are fake, so
please let me judge it by myself.

[AG2012]

There seems to be a dozen unrecorded ЛОСКУТОВ family members whose first name started with G, all were prominent silversmiths but not recorded in any reference book. Skurlov collected only three of them.

[Mart]

It depends on what reference books you read. I am not interested in information about how many members of the Loskutov family are mentioned by Skurlov, because he knows nothing about the Loskutovs. I have more than 100 archival documents related to this family.

[AG2012]

Typical for your kind; you are the best in everything, arrogant, omnipotent, derogation of other people`s research (Skurlov in this case ``He knows nothing``).On the other hand, you have 100 documents on Loskutov family, and in spite of that GL remains unknown. Skurlov has extensive data, PL and Ivanov wrote books; where is your contribution to literature ? Unsupported and vane boasting; reminds me of Sputnik V Covid vaccine.
As far as I am concerned, the discussion ends here.

[Mart]

Your anger doesn't hurt me in any way, so you don't have to try))) I just said how many materials I have about Loskutov, nothing more. I wrote a short article about them. The big article is still ahead. Also about Ruckert, Sazikov, Khlebnikov, etc. My colleagues and I have already attributed hundreds of unknown silversmiths, probirers, and you are all looking back somewhere. Ivanov, Skurlov and PL did collect information from reference books in their books, but they did not conduct any research - only on well-known names like Faberge. Have you read the research of these authors on Loskutov, Sokolovsky, Kuzmichev, Tarasov or other silversmiths? Yes, they did not do it at all))))
Yes, there were 4 people in the Loskutov family who could have been branded "ГЛ". Read Skurlov and tell me which one of them is branded in this topic.) I admire you because we don't know each other, and you know that I don't have anything interesting in the archives!)))
Good luck to you and a lot of knowledge!

[oel]

Most likely India or China modern production with faked marks.
Regards

What is your assumption based on, please explain?
Considering the marks, are these fake?

As a moderator, it comes from my heart, it just keeps happening year after year, only on the Russian forum. Angry reactions and bruised contributors egos. What nonsense on this forum, simply mention your sources and accept differing opinions.There is no need to utter insults.
We know that the existing literature on Russian silver marks is outdated and not without shortcomings and errors. We should welcome further research by Russian or other interested amateur or professional researchers. Yes, of course we may ask critical questions, but well-founded without a big mouth.
Enjoy the Russian silver forum.

Peter.

[antiquv]

thank you for the replay Peter, I think that in the response I got
about this item being an Indian fake we can all see the kind of people
that are kind of making it hard for all of us in forums and in this collectors/dealers
community, its almost as the guy that answered me had a special something against the piece
we all know its original, its fully marked and well made, so I think the first step in making
the forum batter and more honest is to stand against such sayings, AG2012 can be very educated
and full of expirience but his answer was the answer of a troll I'm sorry about it,
I can't understand why no-one is standing against this false claims
this piece is a piece of history and I think that when someone says its an Indian-chinese fake
we should all be ashamed, I once liked this forum because it was so helpful and honest but
now... I feel like its a place of jealousy and self admiration of some people and its a shame.

[Mart]

I believe that the forum management pursues a very correct policy towards participants. Everyone has the opportunity to say their opinion and you may agree with it or not. It is important that discussions do not turn into insults to each other. All forums have participants who often make mistakes when attributing items. I don't think this is a reason to humiliate them. And I didn’t see any persecution of your product. There was only one single negative opinion. There would be no less of them in other places))).
There are participants here (not all of whom regularly participate in discussions) who can answer most questions about Russian silver.

[antiquv]

you are right, everyone can say what he thinks about an object, but there is a way to do it
this is not a thought, its a claim!!
"Most likely India or China modern production with faked marks."

I have encountered this behavior in other forums and two days later someone was trying to buy the item from me
I don't say this is the situation here, but to write this things on an 100% original object like this is a shame, for the object and for the owner.
and just see how he was answering other forum members that were trying to help!!

but at the end you are right and if I said something that was offensive I'm sorry about it

[Mart]

If you need, then a little more information about your product. From my point of view, the maker is Gerasim's younger brother, Grigory Grigoryevich Loskutov. For a while he also used the brand "ГГЛ", but...Gerasim himself had a son, Grigory, and Gerasim's younger brother, Stepan, also had a son, Grigory.
Very few people know that this is not a Gerasim Loskutov stamp. I think that in the descriptions you can just write one last name - "Loskutov" and it will be correct))).
The Loskutov brothers and Gerasim's other son were excellent silversmiths. Their main works can be seen in the works of the Sazikov factory and then (presumably) at the Ovchinnikov and Khlebnikov factories.

[oel]

Last but not least, with tears in my eyes, it is a beauty of a Russian tea caddy.

Peter.