Help identify these marks

[philip]

Can anyone tell me where this tray comes from?

Thank you!!

[Theoderich]

Poland Warschau
Emil Radke active: 1832-1868
this mark is before 1851

[Theoderich]

looking here
http://www.925-1000.com/forum/viewtopic ... ight=radke" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Kind Regards Theo

[philip]

thank you for the info, can you tell me what the 12 mark means?

best regards,

Philip

[Theoderich]

12/16 = 0,75

It was the german standard for Silver before 1888 (in warzawa before 1851)
Later poland becomes the russian standard 84/96 = 0,875.

[philip]

Thanks again for your reply.

i am totaly new in the "silverHobby" so i ceep asking if you dont mind?

I just found out that there is a lot system and that it is divided in 16 parts. I see I got here the lowest part. Can You tell me what the other parts are that are used. In this case: 12 lot = 0.75, what is the 0.25 made of?

Once again, thank you for your answers.

Best Regards,
Philip

[silverport]

Hello Philip

Always you are welcome in »925-1000« with your questions.

All we were once like you, novice silver collector, or »Greenhorns« - “kleuters” in de “kleuterschool voor zilver liefhebbers”.

First an answer on your last question:

Silver isn’t a hard material — so it needs companions who give strength contra wear and tear.

From »Bronze Age« on the professionals observed the different positive and negative influences of material with each other — called »alloy«

The almost usual partner for silver is copper — so you’ve in your tray 75 % pure silver, married with 25 % copper.

Please look to this topic: http://www.925-1000.com/Fgerman_marks_b1884.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

But systems and numerals not always the same; Theoderich has already made you attending on the Polish history.

There a several different ways of counting the contents of pure silver in silver alloys; here e.g. only some examples:

German speaking area, like Austria and Germany: Pure silver: 16 part of 16; 1 Lot = 1.000/16 = 62.5 per mil

Latin speaking area, like Portugal and Spain: Pure silver: 12 part of 12; 1 dinheiro = 1.000/12 = 83.3 per mil

Russian speaking area, like Poland and Russia: Pure silver: 96 part of 96; 1 solotnik = 1.000/96 = 10.4166 per mil

Already these show you the complexity of systems and their marking. If you don’t find a numerical on old silver, but a town’s mark, then is that a symbol there fore that »towns silver alloy convention« is fulfilled.

But e.g. in German speaking area was a long time usual 13 Lot — exceptional also 10, 11, 12, 13 ½, 14 and 15 Lot. For reason of wars and contributions, and other circumstances of economic decline, the pure silver content in alloys was lowered, as Theoderich has observed until official agreed 9 Lot.

One of the ways out of this was the double system which Thomas Boulsover 1743 invented in Sheffield. A century later has already this »Sheffield Plate« system declined by the introduction of »Electro Plate«. It is said: »The originators of silver-plating were George Richards Elkington and Henry Elkington who began their research in times of the industrial revolution. By the 1830's they had patented their processes and 1840 saw the technique of electro-plating brought to perfection«

The French company Christofle has bought from the Elkington’s a licence in 1843.

In Germany e.g. it was Werner (von) Siemens who’ve sale 1842 a licence and installation to Gebr. Henniger, Berlin.

Why I tell you all of this? It is normal that novices are confronted by lack of knowledge, to get also offers of »Electro Plated«.

If you could afford to buy only silver items from time before around 1850, then you would have not many problems with »Electro Plated« - but the styles resisted in reproductions; look here: http://www.925-1000.com/Fgerman_hanau.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Fakes sometimes were made also by the »Galvan plastic Processing«.

Don’t buy an »Acid Test Kit for Silver« - my set is virgin now at least about 25 year.

The best invest you could do, is learning by doing: Read a lot, ask a lot, handle a lot, buy less, buy quality!

Here you could find also some information on »Silver plate« and their numerical:

http://www.925-1000.com/articles.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.925-1000.com/silverglossary.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.925-1000.com/a_platenumbers.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Geluk ermee!

Kind regards silverport

[philip]

Beste Silverport,

Heel veel dank voor de reactie!

Excuus voor mijn late reactie.

met vriendelijke groet,

philip