Please can someone tell me about this German maker's mark for S. Spyer, which is on a 1930's-1950's silver ashtray.
German maker S. Spyer
German maker S. Spyer
Please can someone tell me about this German maker's mark for S. Spyer, which is on a 1930's-1950's silver ashtray.
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silverport
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German RETAILER S. Spyer - place yet unknown
Hello Sebastian
If you would look very keen on left side details of »S.SPYER« mark, you could observe, that S. Spyer has struck over real maker's mark his retailers mark. That was done with a hard strike - to could invisible flattens away the maker's mark.
But the photo is to blurry for making an almost correct guess, who made the ashtray.
Maybe you could place a high resolution photo from this corner only?
Kind regards silverport
If you would look very keen on left side details of »S.SPYER« mark, you could observe, that S. Spyer has struck over real maker's mark his retailers mark. That was done with a hard strike - to could invisible flattens away the maker's mark.
But the photo is to blurry for making an almost correct guess, who made the ashtray.
Maybe you could place a high resolution photo from this corner only?
Kind regards silverport
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silverport
- contributor
- Posts: 870
- Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:18 pm
- Location: Portugal
Yes possibly it is »Lutz & Weiss« - but that remain a
Hello Sebastian
Thank you for the new photo! So it’s a little bit easier to study this mark’s corner.
It seems to me that I could confirm only your guess with an own and similar guess: Possibly »Lutz & Weiss«.
Well, the ash tray is a modern time product; that makes it a little bit more to a guess, as to a confirmation!
Why?
In the early phase of »Lutz & Weiss«, until the hyper destructive bombing on 23 February 1945, they had such a kind of typical marks for silver that also an over stricken marks, areas beholded over a sufficient amount of indicators.
First characteristic of these marks was:
Cartouches in form of a characteristically four pointed shield
Contents of cartouches always in intaglio
First cartouche: »Crescent and Crown«; second cartouche: Fineness, e.g. »800«; third cartouche: »LW« (in script, intertwined); fourth mark: their »Lion« - well in several changing combinations, e.g. »Lion«, »800«, »Crescent and Crown«, »LW«. But always typically was, all were in a shield’s cartouche.
By time and while: Some times other finenesses as »800« were struck »incise«.
After the Second World War is there a hotchpotch of marks:
Some »intaglio« marks, resurrected out of the ashes — and »incised« marks became usual.
But then has behold only the »LW« the shield’s cartouche »incised«.
In your case of cast founded ashtray, the marks are »incised« - except the »intaglio« mark of »S.SPYER« and the »intaglio« mark below this mark, well destructed by »S.SPYER«.
In between, during my brain jogging, I haven’t remembered a better goal as you’ve already made: »Lutz & Weiss« - my congratulations to "Sherlock Holmes" Sebastian!
Well, we couldn’t state this for final; for reason of missing sales promotion catalogues of »Lutz & Weiss«.
In relation to »S.SPYER« actually I don’t know anything — here I’ve only an old Professionals Address Book on maker’s, whole sellers and retailers of Germany from 1903.
But the name itself seems to me, not to be a German whole sellers or retailer’s name. In Germany the name would be written SPEYER — the same as the historic Emperors town.
It could be that a descent of a Speyer born immigrated to the United States or self to the far south of Australia?
These immigrants where often very inventive, very productive, and very creative in their new surroundings.
At least two third of my family lives already, from far more then a century on, in North America, a few in Australia as well.
There must be done some more research, related on »S.SPYER«. But your ash tray hasn’t other then German marks — so it seems to me, must be searched in foreign States with a more liberal Assay system.
Sorry there fore that actually I couldn’t give you more sounded results.
But own research isn’t a lost of time - sure it's a »win-win« of knowledge.
You could every time add yours finds to this topic.
Thanks in advance!
Good luck!
Kind regards silverport
Thank you for the new photo! So it’s a little bit easier to study this mark’s corner.
It seems to me that I could confirm only your guess with an own and similar guess: Possibly »Lutz & Weiss«.
Well, the ash tray is a modern time product; that makes it a little bit more to a guess, as to a confirmation!
Why?
In the early phase of »Lutz & Weiss«, until the hyper destructive bombing on 23 February 1945, they had such a kind of typical marks for silver that also an over stricken marks, areas beholded over a sufficient amount of indicators.
First characteristic of these marks was:
Cartouches in form of a characteristically four pointed shield
Contents of cartouches always in intaglio
First cartouche: »Crescent and Crown«; second cartouche: Fineness, e.g. »800«; third cartouche: »LW« (in script, intertwined); fourth mark: their »Lion« - well in several changing combinations, e.g. »Lion«, »800«, »Crescent and Crown«, »LW«. But always typically was, all were in a shield’s cartouche.
By time and while: Some times other finenesses as »800« were struck »incise«.
After the Second World War is there a hotchpotch of marks:
Some »intaglio« marks, resurrected out of the ashes — and »incised« marks became usual.
But then has behold only the »LW« the shield’s cartouche »incised«.
In your case of cast founded ashtray, the marks are »incised« - except the »intaglio« mark of »S.SPYER« and the »intaglio« mark below this mark, well destructed by »S.SPYER«.
In between, during my brain jogging, I haven’t remembered a better goal as you’ve already made: »Lutz & Weiss« - my congratulations to "Sherlock Holmes" Sebastian!
Well, we couldn’t state this for final; for reason of missing sales promotion catalogues of »Lutz & Weiss«.
In relation to »S.SPYER« actually I don’t know anything — here I’ve only an old Professionals Address Book on maker’s, whole sellers and retailers of Germany from 1903.
But the name itself seems to me, not to be a German whole sellers or retailer’s name. In Germany the name would be written SPEYER — the same as the historic Emperors town.
It could be that a descent of a Speyer born immigrated to the United States or self to the far south of Australia?
These immigrants where often very inventive, very productive, and very creative in their new surroundings.
At least two third of my family lives already, from far more then a century on, in North America, a few in Australia as well.
There must be done some more research, related on »S.SPYER«. But your ash tray hasn’t other then German marks — so it seems to me, must be searched in foreign States with a more liberal Assay system.
Sorry there fore that actually I couldn’t give you more sounded results.
But own research isn’t a lost of time - sure it's a »win-win« of knowledge.
You could every time add yours finds to this topic.
Thanks in advance!
Good luck!
Kind regards silverport
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silverport
- contributor
- Posts: 870
- Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:18 pm
- Location: Portugal
»S.SPYER« possibly a recently Australian whole seller?
Hello Sebastian
I don’t know if that what I’ve found in between on »S.SPYER« is a thread for find today »S.SPYER«?
In Sydney the 1,021 tons clipper »Speedy« under their captain Nightingale takes on 2 July 1855 an amount of gold and specie's on board, bound for London:
Specie. Sovereigns
Bank of New South Wales 15,000
L. and S. Spyer and Co. 2100
Flavelle, Brothers 400
D. S. Warren and Co 1000
John Row 500
M. and L. Broadziak 323
Josiah Mullins 315
S. Browning 420
J. C. Hopkins 07
Total 20,265
Gold Dust. oz. dwt. gr.
Union Bank 3384 0 0
Oriental Bank 3352 16 12
Bay and Glaister 115 17 0
M. and L. Brodziak ?? 152 8 0
Total 7005 1 12
Value, £26,268
(Source: http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/t ... 1073138560" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)
So it seems to me, that maybe the company »S.SPYER« must be a still existing whole seller in Australia?
Let’s look out for further results.
Kind regards silverport
I don’t know if that what I’ve found in between on »S.SPYER« is a thread for find today »S.SPYER«?
In Sydney the 1,021 tons clipper »Speedy« under their captain Nightingale takes on 2 July 1855 an amount of gold and specie's on board, bound for London:
Specie. Sovereigns
Bank of New South Wales 15,000
L. and S. Spyer and Co. 2100
Flavelle, Brothers 400
D. S. Warren and Co 1000
John Row 500
M. and L. Broadziak 323
Josiah Mullins 315
S. Browning 420
J. C. Hopkins 07
Total 20,265
Gold Dust. oz. dwt. gr.
Union Bank 3384 0 0
Oriental Bank 3352 16 12
Bay and Glaister 115 17 0
M. and L. Brodziak ?? 152 8 0
Total 7005 1 12
Value, £26,268
(Source: http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/t ... 1073138560" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)
So it seems to me, that maybe the company »S.SPYER« must be a still existing whole seller in Australia?
Let’s look out for further results.
Kind regards silverport
Re: German maker S. Spyer
Samuel Spyer juweler Amsterdam founded 1729-present, silver items mainly pre WW2 and German import before 1956
Re: German maker S. Spyer
Hi JKM, welcome to the forum.
Thanks for the for the additional information.
Best,
Oel
Thanks for the for the additional information.
Best,
Oel