Help with id'ing Dutch marks on apostle spoon

[TK1]

Hi everyone. I am posting two photos of an apostle spoon that I just bought. Can someone please help in identifying these marks. I think that these are Dutch marks, but I don't know if they are original pseudo or just fake. The lion mark with crown is clearly visible but there is no number underneath as is the case on many of the Dutch marks shown on this website.

http://gallery.me.com/tariq.khan#100151 ... &view=grid

The spidery looking image mark n the middle is most intriguing. The other marks could be the maker or date. It seems like it might be JB, or LB or IB, I'm not sure.

Any help with identification would be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks

Best wishes

Tariq

[oel]

Hi Tarig,

The link you provided to look at the photo's does not work. Please check.

Regards,

Oel

(admin note: above link fixed)

[TK1]

Apologies, the above links do not work. I haven't used this for a long time. Here is the correct link. Just click on the image and it will blow up to full size.

http://gallery.me.com/tariq.khan#100151 ... &view=grid

Regards

Tariq

[Margaux]

These all look like pseudo hallmarks. The mark IB or LB is not in the booklet of Citroen but I can´t find a silversmith that used such a hallmark.
The spoon itself looks like a simple casted spoon.
Probably made in the era 1890-1910.

Margaux

[oel]

Hello Tariq,

Yes, I do share Margaux opinion.

Regards,

Oel

[TK1]

Thanks very much Margaux and Oel. If you wouldn't mind indulging me a bit please. What does "Pseudo" mean exactly? Can you also tell the grade of silver from these marks, such as .934 or .833, etc. Thanks again.

Best wishes

Tariq

[Margaux]

Hello TK1

There was no mark in your picture for the silver contains. I think it is made of silver but no hallmark to confirm it.
Maybe there are additional marks on the front side of the stem, like a yearletter, a little sword or perhaps a lion passant to the right?

Pseudo mark are fake hallmarks used to let silver items to look much older, sometimes used to avoid customs but mainly to mislead buyers. They were frequently used in the period 1890-1910 by many silversmith´s in The Netherlands.

Most items I have seen with these marks are really made of silver, mainly 835/1000.

Margaux

[TK1]

Hello again Margaux

Thanks for the helpful information. The mark that you see on the bottom is a lion rampant but there are no other marks on any of the 6 spoons other than the ones shown in my picture.

I also discovered that 925-1000 has a page for Hanau silver, who were known to be prolific counterfeiters. I found on the page the mark that looks like a spider, but is probably mimicking a spread Eagle. It is half way down this page http://www.925-1000.com/Fgerman_hanau_marks_01.html under J.D. Scheleissner & Sohne marked [s.456] but with no explanation. There is another one further up the page under B. Neresheimer & Sohne, Ludwig [s.492].

At 3 quarters down the page, there is also a lion rampant mark very similar to the one on my spoon under the"Unattributed Pseudo Marks of Hanau Style Silver" on the same page. Unfortunately, there is no example on this page where it shows both the marks on the same piece.

It looks that this might be a Hanau piece than Dutch but then as you say the Dutch were at it too.

(admin edit - see Posting Requirements)

Thanks for your help again.

Best wishes

Tariq

[Margaux]

Hello TK1

Yes the figure on the bowl resembles a spread eagle, but the eagle of the city mark of Deventer in The Netherlands. I have no doubt about the origin of your spoons. I think they were made in The Netherlands.

We never discuss the value of silverware on this forum, nor any buyer-seller issues.

Margaux

[TK1]

Thanks Margaux. You have been very helpful.

Regards

Tariq