An Image of William Bateman Discovered?

[dognose]

The possibilty of an important discovery of portraits of Mr. and Mrs. William Bateman and related ephemera has appeared on a certain online auction recently, and as this may be, perhaps, the only surviving likeness, and may well be the only opportunity for such items to be ever seen again, I contacted the current owner, who has kindly given permission for these items to be recorded on 925-1000.com.

As stated, it is yet to be proved that these items do relate to William Bateman I, and members imput would be gratefully received.

The cased portraits are dated August 1826, one of a gentleman, being labeled 'Grandpapa Bateman' and another of a lady, less clearly labeled as what is thought to be ..????? Anna Bateman.

















Also discovered are a pair of admission passes to the funeral of the Duke of Wellington in 1852 granted to 'Wm. Bateman'. As William Bateman I died in 1850, they cannot relate to him, but may, perhaps, relate to William Bateman II.








(Images courtesy of Lee Burgess)

The name Bateman is not the rarest to be found, and much work is still needed to be done if these items are to be positively indentified and are connected with the Bateman family of silversmiths. Has anyone any knowledge of a known image of William Bateman I ?

William Bateman (I) married Ann Wilson in 1800. Could it be possible, that as William's mother was named Ann, and he also had an Aunt, by the name of Ann, that his wife was known as Anna, to save confusion?

Trev.

[silverly]

I'm not totally convinced, but the name before Anna looks like it could be Grandma or something like it?

[dognose]

Thanks Pat, I've stared at it for so long, I can't see anything now!

One small point of note, the couple are seated on what appears to be the same sofa, one at either end. Perhaps painted at the same time?





Trev.

[JBA]

Very interesting.

What is the reason for thinking this may be Wm Bateman in the first place? Other than an auctioneers optimistic sales pitch that is!!

[dognose]

Hi JBA,

I think the only thoughts so far, is that this may possibly be connected to to the Bateman family of silversmiths.

The purpose of the post is that it is hoped members may be able to imput some information on the liklihood of a connection with that family. As to whether that is possible is the object of the exercise and is yet to be seen. The only clues that I can think of so far, is the name Bateman, a likely London location due to the 'Inhabitant's Pass Ticket', the subject of the portraits age (William (I) would have been aged 51 years in 1826) which could fit. It is likey that such portraits would only have been acquired by those of some means, and also, presumably, it is likely only those of some standing in the community would receive tickets to Wellington's funeral. Just how many other Bateman families may fit in with the above content is just the sort of detail that it is hoped that this post may reveal.

At the end of the day, should a positive identification occur sometime in the future, we will have been fortunate enough to have had the opportunity to record these images, something that may perhaps not be possible at some time in the future.

Regards, Trev.

[JBA]

Ahh, I understand. Interesting stuff nonetheless. I wondered if perhaps there was some tradition in the family who owns them that they related to the silver family.

Interesting to watch this space.

[SirWatkynBassett]

Hello,

I do not possess a copy, but David Shure wrote a book on Hester Bateman in the late 1950's. I wonder if this contained any family portraits?

Bassett

[larkfield]

Comment: Re Inhabitants Pass Ticket - What confirms this to be to the Funeral.
To me all the ticket says is that the holder can pass on foot to No. 17 Fleet Street until 8 o clock on that day
which to me is equal to a residents pass to their residence or whatever. Is it known what 17 Fleet Street was in those days.

[dognose]

Hi Larkfield,

Excellent! It's amazing how a fresh set of eyes can cast more light upon the subject.

You raise a very interesting point, and one that perhaps may go a long way to solving this riddle.

1843 saw the demise of the firm of Bateman & Ball, following that event, William Bateman (II), now in reduced circumstances, entered into employment with the business of John Lias & Son as a clerk (see: http://www.925-1000.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=8565" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; page 1). The address of John Lias & Son at the date of Wellington's funeral in 1852 was 7, Salisbury Court, Fleet Street. Coincidence?

Regards Trev.

[MCB]

Here are some more observations on the possibility of the artefacts being related to William Bateman the silversmith, his wife Ann and their son William Bateman II.
William Bateman I was born in December 1774 and married Ann Wilson in 1800. He died in 1850. The portraits are dated 1826 and, as Trev has noted, the couple’s ages are apparently compatible with both being born around 1774.
As Trev has also said it would be expected that portraits of William I and Ann would show they had money. As well as the cost of having portraits painted the images show the couple to be well dressed; the lady wears expensive lace, a gold brooch and a ring or rings more elaborate than a simple gold band. The man holds spectacles which would have been expensive.
Confining a search of records to a London connection the London Marriage Index between, say, 1795 when William Bateman I was 21 years old and the date of the portraits in 1826 shows 3 other marriages between a William Bateman and an Ann and all are candidates for being the couple in the portraits.
We don’t know “Grandpapa Bateman” was named William. The London Index records 9 other marriages between a male Bateman and an Ann in the years 1795-1826 any of whom, in theory, could be the couple.
Aside from these the only name similar to Anna is mentioned once that being in the marriage between Joanna Ann Rackstraw and John Bateman at All Hallows,Tottenham in 1805.
As can be seen Bateman was not an uncommon name in London but not all would have had wealth and not all the marriages mentioned would have survived to be the two portraits painted in 1826. Elimination of the other potential candidates in London would be a difficult task. As a London connection has not been proved it should also be said that Bateman is not an unusual name in other parts of the country.
The 1851 Post Office Directory (there is no access to the 1852 Directory) shows 17 Fleet Street was occupied by Tom Skelton, a hairdresser. The tickets are endorsed “Admit bearer to the second floor”. The issue of the tickets by the Commissioner of Police indicates the premises may well have been commandeered and the second floor would have been better for viewing the funeral procession. The issue of tickets to the holder suggests a person of some social note within the City of London rather than a provincial since the number of tickets for visitors to view would have been limited. The possibility of the entry tickets being issued to William Bateman II should however be viewed against 23 other christenings of a William Bateman recorded in the London Indices 1780-1830 any of whom still alive could have been the holder.The proximity of William Bateman II’s potential workplace in Salisbury Court does put a greater possibility to his being the original holder. Another possibility is that there was an official named William Bateman who issued the tickets to someone and made the entries to the back of them.
Mike

[dognose]

Brilliant, as always. Well done Mike.

Regards Trev.

[historydetective]

There is an active listing in an online auction site for an 1826 portrait miniature of William Bateman and wife. I know that linking to a commercial site is not generally in keeping with the policy of this board, but this is an exceptional situation, as this likeness may well be one of a kind; it would benefit the field of antique silver scholarship to preserve the image of a preeminent London silversmith who belonged to this important silversmithing family, and it would certainly be a situation worthy of the research and guidance that the great minds on this site could bring to bear in helping to get these objects and the accompanying ephemera in a proper museum, should the images prove to be what they purport to be. In helping to establish that this is the correct William Bateman, I should say that the couple in the portraits lived at The Elms Clapton. I am not familiar enough with London to say whether that fact supports the claim that it is the correct William Bateman, but the man and woman in the portraits were clearly very wealthy people. LET ME SAY EXPLICITLY: I HAVE NO INTEREST, FINANCIAL OR OTHERWISE, IN THIS MATTER, other than wanting what are possibly incredibly rare items preserved. I am asking the admins to please advise how I may share a reference to this listing so that it can get the attention it deserves from our board members.

[larkfield]

Hi History Detective
Have you seen in Contributers Notes this site, the topic "an Image of William Bateman discovered" with submission date of 23 February 2012 and last update 2 March. This is probably the same subject.
Regards

[historydetective]

Yes, Larkfield, Dognose beat me to it, so that's a good thing, as he is an admin. His thread certainly does pertain to the portraits to which I was referring. The Elms Clapton residence of the sitters in the portraits might not have been mentioned in that discussion thread, so doing so might shed light on the question of whether or not it's the correct William Batemans. Thanks, Larkfield.

[dognose]

The above three posts are taken from another topic started on the same subject.

[MCB]

Clapton is not so very far from St Mary, Stoke Newington, the address shown in the registration of William Bateman's burial aged 75 years in 1850 at Christ Church with St Mary and St Stephen, Spitalfields.
Not to say that William Bateman had no connection with The Elms, Clapton in 1826 but all of the records available on the web indicate the silversmith of that name lived in Bunhill Row where he was recorded on two of his sons' Apprentice Indentures of 1815 and 1816. He also shown there in the 1829 Post Office Directory and on the 1841 UK Census, at that time aged 65 years living with wife Ann, Augusta and Emma Bateman both aged 30 years, Emily Bateman aged 20 years and three resident servants.
More historical records are being made available on websites all of the time and it may be that other evidence will become accessible to show who actually lived at The Elms in 1826.
It would perhaps be an advantage for future research to place on record the evidence to support the statement that the portraits are connected with this Clapton address.

Mike

[dognose]

Oh, what a sad end to this little saga!

It would appear that these portaits are not of our Bateman family. A quick google search reveals that the Bateman family that were connected with 'The Elms', Clapton are another of that name.



To cut a long story short, the Bateman family in the portaits are likely to be linked to that of John Bateman, described in one source, as an 'unsuccessful inventor'. See: http://www.scottisharchitects.org.uk/ar ... ?id=205484

The Elms connection is via Mary Howitt, who wrote 'The Spider and the Fly', see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Howitt, Edward La Trobe Bateman, see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_La_Trobe_Bateman, appears to married into the Howitt family, when their residence was at 'The Elms'.

I guess the portraits are of John Bateman and his wife Mary (née) La Trobe, or perhaps John's father, or maybe even Henry Bateman, a neighbour of the Howitt's.

If you do a google search, there is more information to be found.

Oh well, it was a nice thought!

Trev.

[silverly]

Brilliant Trev. I think maybe the suspected name Anna is just part of Grandmama Bateman.

[MCB]

Excellent work Trev.

Akin to pointing out that the king may not be wearing clothes it wasn't the most enjoyable exercise to put contras to the possibility that the portraits were of "our" William and his wife but the value of the open forum is shown once again.

Now to find the likely William Bateman named on the passes?

Regards
Mike

[SueG]

Oh, what a sad end to this little saga!

It would appear that these portaits are not of our Bateman family. A quick google search reveals that the Bateman family that were connected with 'The Elms', Clapton are another of that name.



To cut a long story short, the Bateman family in the portaits are likely to be linked to that of John Bateman, described in one source, as an 'unsuccessful inventor'. See: http://www.scottisharchitects.org.uk/ar ... ?id=205484

The Elms connection is via Mary Howitt, who wrote 'The Spider and the Fly', see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Howitt, Edward La Trobe Bateman, see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_La_Trobe_Bateman, appears to married into the Howitt family, when their residence was at 'The Elms'.

I guess the portraits are of John Bateman and his wife Mary (née) La Trobe, or perhaps John's father, or maybe even Henry Bateman, a neighbour of the Howitt's.

If you do a google search, there is more information to be found.

Oh well, it was a nice thought!

Trev.

Henry Bateman (1802 - 1872) mentioned above is the son of William Bateman 1 and Anne Wilson. His daughter Henrietta Mary Bateman (1830 - 1883) married Joseph Trueman (1803 -1871) Newspaper report of their marriage states Henry Bateman of the Elmes. I read through all posts on this and could not find out the surname of the family that the paintings came from.