Help in trying to find this mark from a USS Navy ship.

[Fastfred711]

I have this sterling silver plate 9 inches across and been trying to find out about this plate and cannot find this sterling mark. On the plate (front) is Wardroom Officers USS Chicago. I have served on the USS Chicago in 71-73 and this cruiser was the forth one. First one was 1885-1923, second was 1931-1943 sunk at sea. Third one was 1945 and decommission and forth one converted from the 3rd one to a cruiser guided missile from 1964 to 1980 and then decommissioned. I have a ships reunion end of this month seeing some of the shipmates that I haven't seen in 41 plus years and would like to show them this plate. Any help would be appreciated big time. I am thinking that this plate is from the first ship that is called the great white fleet. Thanks you for you help.

[Francais]

This is not really my area, and there are others better in this period than I , but I like all things naval, as so many of my ancestors were sailors. So first welcome to the forum, and I guess everyone now says thank you for your service, although I think that inadequate.
So on to the plate, The mark, with what looks more like a dog than a lion, is similar to that of LeBolt which used a lion. That would be very appropriate as it is a Chicago firm. Unfortunately it does not match exactly the marks I have in my references. I will leave this to my betters to sort out, but if they can't, I know, and will pursue it with, a friend who is perhaps the leading expert on Chicago silver.
By the way, my guess is that it is c. 1950, but could be as late as your service dates.
Maurice

[Fastfred711]

Thank you for the quick response. Looking forward to hearing more about this plate and the Mark. I also thought it looked like a dog.

[Francais]

Ah yes but a sea dog.

[oel]

Hi,

Doggy like lion with his front paws on top of (£)

The maker's mark could be for Ellmore Silver Co:
Ellmore Silver Co.
Meriden, CT c. 1935-1960
Acquired the Amston Silver Co., Concord Silversmiths,
G.H. French & Co., W. & S. Blackinton, and the Frank M.
Whiting Co. When Ellmore went out of business in 1960, the
flatware dies of F.M. Whiting were sold to the Crown Silver Co.
and the W. & S. Blackinton Co. was sold to Raimond Silver.
Makers of sterling flatware, holloware, and novelties.

Oel.

[dragonflywink]

Ellmore: American Marks - E

~Cheryl

[Fastfred711]

Thanks for the information and the quick responses from everyone that responded. Puts to rest of what generation of the plate. To me (tell me if you think I am wrong) as it was commissioned for the 3rd USS Chicago ship 1945. This cruiser was then again from the deck up redesigned and commissioned in 1964 which I served on which I will be telling the shipmates when I bring it to the reunion for them to handle and review that it was pretty much from our period of aboard ship.

Question, should I polish this plate or just leave it in the state it is?

Thank you again so much for all helping out here and to welcome me on the forum. Maurice thank you for the comment for my military service.


Fred

[Francais]

Nothing wrong with polishing,in fact it's a good idea. Just leave the darkened areas around decoration, it gives is definition. In other words polish it all over, but don't over-polish the decoration.
Maurice

[silverly]

Welcome to the forum again. Is your plate marked with the word sterling anywhere? If it is not, then it is very unlikely that it is sterling. I've heard of wardroom silver being referred to as sterling by sellers, but never seen any examples myself. Many ships did have some very fine sterling silver presentation pieces and even sets along the way, and it would be surprising if the City of Chicago didn't take good care of your ship in that regard.

Concerning the pieces of wardroom silver in regular use, there's always exceptions, so your piece just may be sterling, but make sure you see a mark. You don't want to be telling any sea stories at the reunion, right? Regardless of the material used to make the plate, it is a terrific souvenir of a great and for me majestic ship.

[Fastfred711]

Thanks for the polishing info. On the question from Silverly, YES it is marked Sterling on the back of the plate. I myself have never seen another silver wardroom piece of this ship anywhere else. Very rare to find any wardroom piece as usually it goes to the city or state of the ship after decommission. On the ship I use to look at the whole set of silver of the USS Chicago behind locked windows and today wonder where this stuff is. I asked the USA National Archives of ships if what they have in storage and they gave me a list of stuff but nothing on silver. Hum, must have a gem here. This ship I served on is very decorated from the Vietnam War that I served on during those times. An example is we got credited with 15 mig kills within a very short time and other events as well as having mortar from shore battery firing at us. Here is a picture of the back with Sterling stamped on it. Great to hear from you guys on what you suggest and ask. If you want, keep asking question and will be happy to try and answer as well as my questions back. Hopefully I am not boring you. Thanks again.
Fred

[Fastfred711]

Here is the shot of the wardroom silver collection presented to CA-136 by the City of Chicago in 1945. Now I am confused as the design of this piece does not match the ones in the case. Perhaps the one I have is one used aboard each day in the wardroom or possible made for the ship before this one that sank and a officer had this as a memento after he transferred or left the service. There I go with sea stories saying this.

[silverly]

It is great that your piece is sterling. So many people kind of give all silver the generic name sterling whether it's plated or not, so I'm never sure without a marking. What a great find!

[Fastfred711]

It is great that your piece is sterling. So many people kind of give all silver the generic name sterling whether it's plated or not, so I'm never sure without a marking. What a great find!

Thank you.

[WarrenKundis]

Hi Fred,

How large is this plate? Out of a full crew, how many officers?

Can anyone identify this Ellmore pattern and the period of manufacturing? Now I'm assuming that the five digit number on the back is a pattern number. The only reason I mention it is because it does not look like a Bureau of Ships number or mark that I've seen.

The Bureau of Ships was established 20 Jun 1940 and abolished 9 Mar 1960. During that time period from the laying of the keel to the stripping of any US Navy vessel after decommissioning was handled directly by them. Particulary items manufactured by subcontractors were marked BuShips. Officer's country was generally a restricted area off limits to enlisted personnel. Chain of custody and access to the wardroom silver was tight. Fred could probably tell you where that armed Marine sentry was posted to ensure that it did not take a walk.

Once that ship was decommissioned, the silver along with every other item on board was sent through the system then into the private sector. Would have been used daily, may have shown a great deal of wear by then. May be a reason you don't see a great deal of it out there.

Dating that pattern may give us a clear idea which USS Chicago it came from.

Warren

[Fastfred711]

Warren, thank you for asking so many questions to try and find out more about this plate and its pattern. The plate measures 9 inches across as I mentioned. As for officers and men after the conversion of 1964 averaged just under 1000 crew. About 80-90 officers give or take during the time I was aboard 71-73 (Just about 3 years). How do I know this? Well, working in the Captains office was also the officers records so that is a plus on my end of knowing. I had access to officers country as you call it do to what I did on the ship. As for the Marine sentry, was just inside officers country right outside the Executive office. The silver in the picture in the wardroom shown in the thread was always under lock and key and checked for inventory each and every day/night, etc. Never did I see this set ever used either. This set of silver in the picture is from the old ship CA-136 before the conversion was finished. Conversion was done in 1959 to 1964, and reclassified CG-11 (Cruiser Guided). When a ship is decommissioned the silver is usually sent into the Naval storage facility. I have checked to find out it is not in the inventory and not in Chicago in city hall. Usually a ships silver is on display at a city or state building. We cannot even find the ships bell. On our FB ship page no one knows where it might be. So perhaps the pattern can tell a story if it can be found.

Thanks again for all your help and again if I can supply anything more on the ships end, let me know.
Fred

[WarrenKundis]

Fred,

Naval Storage Facility is one direction but can not archive or store everything, just not possible. They out process material all the time. City Hall, may be boxed and stored without being on an online catalogue. The silver and the bell have been sent to a more site specific location or organization. Hmmm!

I'm from Hawaii, Air Force brat and former Reservist. The National Park Service administers all the sites at Pearl, you might try contacting them to see if they can tract any material from your ship. Am currently here in Aurora outside of Chicago, was recently at the Harold Washington public library which has a large archive section. May, may, be a few leads there.

Since Ellmore Silver Co ran from 1935-1960, I'm leaning towards ship #2 with the 1931-1943 time frame. Now when you say she was sunk, did she actually go to the bottom or was she just so badly damaged that she limped back to Pearl then was decommissioned?

Warren

[Fastfred711]

Warren, the Navy does artifacts ships stuff. Here is the site. Its the Naval History and Heritage Command. This is where I requested what they had of the USS Chicago and they sent me some pictures of what they cataloged. Told me also, could have more stuff as they have many warehouses of un-cat stuff. Could be, but who knows when they will get to it. This person did tell me the ships bell is not there.
http://www.history.navy.mil/

A little bit about the 2nd Chicago which was sunk in 1943
USS Chicago (CA-29) Launched 1931 and was a Northampton-class heavy cruiser of the United States Navy that served in the Pacific Theater in the early years of World War II. She was the second US Navy ship to be named after the city of Chicago, Illinois. After surviving a midget submarine attack at Sydney Harbor and serving in battle at the Coral Sea and Savo Island in 1942, she was sunk by Japanese aerial torpedoes in the Battle of Rennell Island, in the Solomon Islands, on 30 January 1943.

Possible like you said, could be from the 2nd ship which some of the shipmates suggested this and some suggested the first one (Great white fleet) but this one was launched 1885 until several decommissions and finally in 1935 it ended.

Like I said, possible when it suck in 1943 this plate could of been taken by a crew member before as a memorabilia, etc. Perhaps the pattern can give a year if anyone can find it? In trying to search for a pattern I seen a Amston silver co that was bought by Ellmore in 1935 and thought I read they used some of there pattens but I am not the expert here.

Thanks everyone as sooner or later someone here to find this pattern. The hunt is on!
Fred