Re: unknown russian city mark?
Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 10:31 am
Silver marks are not an absolute science. It means that sometimes you have answers and sometimes you don't. When you have answers you can always make a new question; "is this answer "right" or not?
The sphinx ;-) has spoken, now to the questions:
1) German piece, German maker
As said before it was not at all uncommon that a (also dubious) Russian importer ordered from Germany unmarked objects and had them marked with Russian marks in Russia, all in order to make huge profits.
FYI: The German crown and crescent moon was implemented 1.1.1886 and meant for the German market not necessarily export. This carafe was maybe made before and/or made for export only, who knows? Exporting unmarked objects in silver was not illegal in Germany.
2) German -Latvia
The Russian mark punched on the carafe is the only official mark that can be on it. It contains all necessary information, fineness, import town (Riga was Russia at that time) and the import mark ПТ. It cannot carry a distributor/maker's mark but only this official assaying mark that it has. It was forbidden by law to mark anything else on imported silver objects. Kindly note what I mentioned earlier about dubious merchants in point 1. But no illegal or "missing" marks on this carafe from a Russian point of view. I also find it necessary to repeat that when a "Russian" object has an assaying mark but no maker's mark, it is an imported object. This concerns the time before and during the implementation and use of the import mark ПТ.
3) German Latvia-Riga
The 875M mark is interesting but I already presented a theory why it is there. Perhaps it was meant for the German authorities to show the non standard fineness and explain the missing moon and crown. Maybe a kind of a German "export" mark for non standard purity? Was that the reason I really don't know.
Nothing strange with the German engraving. Latvia is former Courland i.e. German territory in 1600 century and partly Poland and lots of Germans still lived in the Baltic area irrespective of the third split of Poland 1795 when it ceased to exist and was divided between Prussia, Astro-Hungarian and Russia and Courland/Latvia became Russian territory.
Relax Steffen, you have a genuine German made carafe.
What is stated above is only the sphinx's personal theory based on what he has "noticed" through the years when gaining experience...and reading books...
The sphinx ;-) has spoken, now to the questions:
1) German piece, German maker
As said before it was not at all uncommon that a (also dubious) Russian importer ordered from Germany unmarked objects and had them marked with Russian marks in Russia, all in order to make huge profits.
FYI: The German crown and crescent moon was implemented 1.1.1886 and meant for the German market not necessarily export. This carafe was maybe made before and/or made for export only, who knows? Exporting unmarked objects in silver was not illegal in Germany.
2) German -Latvia
The Russian mark punched on the carafe is the only official mark that can be on it. It contains all necessary information, fineness, import town (Riga was Russia at that time) and the import mark ПТ. It cannot carry a distributor/maker's mark but only this official assaying mark that it has. It was forbidden by law to mark anything else on imported silver objects. Kindly note what I mentioned earlier about dubious merchants in point 1. But no illegal or "missing" marks on this carafe from a Russian point of view. I also find it necessary to repeat that when a "Russian" object has an assaying mark but no maker's mark, it is an imported object. This concerns the time before and during the implementation and use of the import mark ПТ.
3) German Latvia-Riga
The 875M mark is interesting but I already presented a theory why it is there. Perhaps it was meant for the German authorities to show the non standard fineness and explain the missing moon and crown. Maybe a kind of a German "export" mark for non standard purity? Was that the reason I really don't know.
Nothing strange with the German engraving. Latvia is former Courland i.e. German territory in 1600 century and partly Poland and lots of Germans still lived in the Baltic area irrespective of the third split of Poland 1795 when it ceased to exist and was divided between Prussia, Astro-Hungarian and Russia and Courland/Latvia became Russian territory.
Relax Steffen, you have a genuine German made carafe.
What is stated above is only the sphinx's personal theory based on what he has "noticed" through the years when gaining experience...and reading books...
