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Russian Teaspoon?

Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 12:36 pm
by Christiane
Hello,

this is another Item, where i am not sure about the provenience. The assay mark look like the mark of Lev Oleks but it is not the citymark of moscow in my opinion. Markers mark is not readable for me. Maybe the marks are a fake? Thank you very much for kind help! Christiane

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Re: Russian Teaspoon?

Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 1:28 pm
by Qrt.S
It is a Russian teaspoon assayed by Lev Oleks in Moscow 1890, but the master ???? Try a bigger closeup of the maker's mark. Moscow's city mark is St George slaying the dragon. This looks fine.

Re: Russian Teaspoon?

Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 1:40 pm
by Christiane
Thanks a lot for the quick answer and greetings to Helsinki! Here is a Photo of the makers mark. Unforunately it is not a very clear mark. Christiane

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Re: Russian Teaspoon?

Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 1:45 pm
by Christiane
Hello, when I click on my photos, they enlarge immediatly - sorry for this fault. I will try again. Christiane

Re: Russian Teaspoon?

Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 2:59 pm
by Qrt.S
Yes, I realized that later but still I cannot figure out what the initials are.

Re: Russian Teaspoon?

Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 3:09 pm
by Qrt.S
Here is my best guess i. e. ИЯ, in Latin IYa. That would be Ivan Kuzmitsh Yashin, but I'm not sure at all, the mark is indeed unclear.

Re: Russian Teaspoon?

Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 3:28 pm
by Christiane
That fits well to the other marks and to the rudimental makers mark in my opinion. Thanks again a lot for the well-informed answers.

Re: Russian Teaspoon?

Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 8:12 pm
by Zolotnik
Hi -

it is as already stated Jaschin I. K., a wellknown larger Moscow firm 1884-1897, known for their spoons.

Regards
Zolotnik

Re: Russian Teaspoon?

Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 6:16 am
by Child
It may be "НЯ" too.

Re: Russian Teaspoon?

Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 11:28 am
by Zolotnik
Hi Child -

Before you answer - think!
In Moscow existed no HЯ!

Regards
Zolotnik

Re: Russian Teaspoon?

Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 9:23 am
by Child
Nobody know even 50% of silver- and goldsmithers, which ... Even in Moskow and SPb. In "Postnikova" and "Ivanov" you can find less then 1/4 ever existing makers marks. It is not England - it is Russia.

Re: Russian Teaspoon?

Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 12:28 pm
by Qrt.S
Your statement is picked from the sky, dear Child. However, it is true that all Russian silversmiths are not known by name even if their marks are known. There are some nameless masters indeed, but that is the case in every country even in UK. But that Ivanov and Postnikova would cover only 1/4 and the rest 3/4 is in darkness is pure nonsense.

Re: Russian Teaspoon?

Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 5:49 am
by Child
In "Postnikova" and "Ivanov" you can find less then 1/4 ever existing makers marks. Makers marks, not masters.

Re: Russian Teaspoon?

Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 5:57 am
by Child
For exampl, PL gives 20 Odessa masters. But there was more then 100 masters. It was the bigest city in Russia after SPb and Moskow.

Re: Russian Teaspoon?

Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 6:56 pm
by Zolotnik
Please mind your spelling a little....

Do you know the difference between maker´s mark and master?

Would you be so kind and name your top secret source(s) - nowbody exept you know them.

Please stop to state something you can not proof - otherwise nobody will take you serious....

Regards
Zolotnik

Re: Russian Teaspoon?

Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 1:52 am
by Qrt.S
Dear child, a silversmith is usually a master appointed by the guild and who has got a maker's mark and it is spelled maker's mark not makers mark (apprentice->journeyman->master).

Yes, I would also be interested in knowing on what source you refer to dear Child, please name it. However, it has, anyway, no meaning whether there was 100 or 1000 or 10000 goldsmiths (=masters)in Odessa or anywhere if their marks are not known. It simple means that they didn't make anything or no objects (or marks) are known. Therefore the number of masters is more or less worthless.
Please also note that there is a minor difference in a nameless mark compared to an unknown mark. The first one means that you have a mark but no name and the latter one usually that you neither have a mark nor a name or that you have a name but the mark is unknown. Sometimes "unknown mark" is misused in the meaning that you have a mark but the master/maker is unknown.
English is some times a difficult language when it is not your native tongue.

Re: Russian Teaspoon?

Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 11:02 am
by Child
[quote=...English is some times a difficult language when it is not your native tongue.[/quote]...

Re: Russian Teaspoon?

Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 7:44 am
by Qrt.S
OK Child, point taken. But the source thank you. You forgot to mention it.
By the way, English is neither my native tongue, but I try hard.