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I have a very old silver dish with two Hallmarks stamped on the upper surface. One shows a lion passant over what looks like mountains or some natural history scene, and the other is a crown which doesn't exactly match any others I have seen . Can anyone help me identify these marks?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/loarie/8942067153/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/loarie/8942073655/

Here I am trying to imbed images:

They are not the standard British hallmarked crown and lion passant, I would think they are possibly continental marks.

Can you make out what the area beneath the lion is supposed to be? I haven't seen this before and when I wasn't paying close attention I saw a bunch of teepees (yes, I know this is not the real case). But, in case I see something in the future I'd like to know what it is meant to be.

Hola Th0th, se trata de una marca del Virreinato Español en Guatemala del s. XVIII.
Capitanía General de Guatemala, fue una entidad territorial integrante del Imperio español, dentro del Virreinato de Nueva España, establecida por la Corona española durante su periodo de dominio americano, entre 1540 y 1812 y de 1816 a 1820.

Th0th Hi, this is a brand of Spanish in Guatemala Viceroyalty of s. XVIII.
Captaincy General of Guatemala, was a territorial entity member of the Spanish Empire, in the Viceroyalty of New Spain, established by the Spanish crown during the period of American rule, between 1540 and 1812 and 1816-1820



Regards

Hi Th0th,

Welcome to the Forum.

Can you share with us an image of the whole item?

Trev.

So, what do we take from this? Is it a bad copy of an old mark or a possibly a correct variation or a remaining mystery? ;)

A friend has kindly supplied some further information:

The “Crown” is a tax mark of the “Capitanía General de Guatemala” (Supreme Command of Guatemala; until beginning of the XIX century elected by the Spanish kings). It’s signification is, that has being paid the “impuesto del quinto” (tax of the fifth of the value of the item in question). Source: Josefina Alonso, El arte de la platería en la Capitanía General de Guatemala. 1981

Explanation of the Guatemala Assay Mark:

It was provided by the “Capitanía General de Guatemala” (who's residence was in 1524 first time moved to “Santiago de Goathemala”. In 1541 a mudslide and an earthquake destroyed that capital. So in 1543 until 1773 the “Capitanía” of all Spanish Crown related area in Central America was settled in a newly built town in a valley not so far away.)

That 3rd capital was in 1566 decorated by the Spanish king Philip II with the name “La Muy Noble y Leal Ciudad de Santiago de los Caballeros de Goathemala” (The very noble and loyal city Santiago of the Knights of Guatemala).

The Punch show (normally) a knight, brandish his sword on a to the left galloping horse, jumping over the two neighbors’ volcano’ of the 3rd capital of Guatemala, “Agua” (water) and “La Horqueta”, a Gemini of “Acatenango” and “Fuego” (fire).

There are existing many incomplete struck versions; e.g. as the here shown ones. But almost all could be recognized by an animal jumping over two “peaks” (of volcano’). So the remark of “salmoned” on what it is, is answered.

In summer 1773 an earthquake has destroyed that 3rd capital of Guatemala, today called “Antigua Guatemala” — and it seems that that time range was also the end of use of this punch?

Source: Alejandro Fernández, Rafael Munoa, Jorge Rabasco, Encyclopédia de la Plata Española y virreinal americana. 1984, p. 510-512.

Trev.

Buenes dias, Hello Dognose & Funkel, after browsing & reading many posts I couldn't help noticing that you 2 seem quite knowledged in Mexican silver marks. I have what looks to be a double hand bell but with no bells inside, so then it looks like a double candle snuffer. Its a very dark metal until I polished a section to find a brilliant silver as well as the letters 'WA' "Spain" & 4 other letters I cannot decipher, these are engraved as the hallmark on the top bell shape piece. Any idea of a Spanish silversmith with WA as their initials? I believe it is a true antique.

Hi,

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Trev.