Two beakers two unknown early 19th c Marks
Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 3:07 pm
As I have probably said before, I have never paid much attention to most 19th C. French Silver. It is enough work learning 18th c. marks.
There are always exceptions, like ones from Strasbourg. I bought and kept these two T.TONNELIER beakers, mainly because they are the only French beakers I have had available that are really big enough for beer. Even some 17th c. French beakers I use, are just big enough for a 12 oz. beer. These will hold a little less and a little more than 16 oz. So anyway I have never really paid much attention to the marks. Both beakers have marks for 1819-38. the only curious item is the maker's mark on one is about twice the size of the one on the other. But that is not surprising as Tonnelier seemed to make every other early 19th c. beaker, so he had to have quite a few marks. What I don't understand is the extra marks. On the larger beaker (with the smaller maker's mark) there is a very, very small Minerva mark, but not the ones I know. First it is tiny, about the size of the boar's head mark. Second it is in a conforming cartouche. But everything else is there, the snake (or whatever) that goes down the side of the helmet, the feathers, etc. There is also a letter or a number on her cheek. It is very finely cut, but too small for the abilities of my camera. I presume it is some kind of official mark, added later, but not mentioned in Tardy. My main reason for guessing this is that the beaker was made before 1838, and there was no Minerva mark.
The second mark is on the smaller beaker at the rim. it is a lion with his mouth open in a conforming cartouche. it is on the other side of the grosse guarantie mark of Paris. It is about 3 times the size of the boar's head mark on the other side of guarantee mark. The presence of the boar's head mark is one of those inconsistencies that doesn't bother me. My guess is this lion mark is a house mark of the Tonnelier firm, perhaps a journeyman's mark. it is not the same quality, or fineness of the other odd Minerva mark. These photos are the best I can do.
![Image](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v600/labarbedor/9251000/IMG_10401_zps2f9732f7.jpg)
![Image](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v600/labarbedor/9251000/IMG_1040_zpsc6593b51.jpg)
![Image](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v600/labarbedor/9251000/IMG_1044_zps9582b176.jpg)
![Image](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v600/labarbedor/9251000/IMG_1047_zps96b76467.jpg)
![Image](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v600/labarbedor/9251000/IMG_1041_zpse1a91e4d.jpg)
![Image](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v600/labarbedor/9251000/IMG_1043_zps355582e1.jpg)
There are always exceptions, like ones from Strasbourg. I bought and kept these two T.TONNELIER beakers, mainly because they are the only French beakers I have had available that are really big enough for beer. Even some 17th c. French beakers I use, are just big enough for a 12 oz. beer. These will hold a little less and a little more than 16 oz. So anyway I have never really paid much attention to the marks. Both beakers have marks for 1819-38. the only curious item is the maker's mark on one is about twice the size of the one on the other. But that is not surprising as Tonnelier seemed to make every other early 19th c. beaker, so he had to have quite a few marks. What I don't understand is the extra marks. On the larger beaker (with the smaller maker's mark) there is a very, very small Minerva mark, but not the ones I know. First it is tiny, about the size of the boar's head mark. Second it is in a conforming cartouche. But everything else is there, the snake (or whatever) that goes down the side of the helmet, the feathers, etc. There is also a letter or a number on her cheek. It is very finely cut, but too small for the abilities of my camera. I presume it is some kind of official mark, added later, but not mentioned in Tardy. My main reason for guessing this is that the beaker was made before 1838, and there was no Minerva mark.
The second mark is on the smaller beaker at the rim. it is a lion with his mouth open in a conforming cartouche. it is on the other side of the grosse guarantie mark of Paris. It is about 3 times the size of the boar's head mark on the other side of guarantee mark. The presence of the boar's head mark is one of those inconsistencies that doesn't bother me. My guess is this lion mark is a house mark of the Tonnelier firm, perhaps a journeyman's mark. it is not the same quality, or fineness of the other odd Minerva mark. These photos are the best I can do.
![Image](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v600/labarbedor/9251000/IMG_10401_zps2f9732f7.jpg)
![Image](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v600/labarbedor/9251000/IMG_1040_zpsc6593b51.jpg)
![Image](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v600/labarbedor/9251000/IMG_1044_zps9582b176.jpg)
![Image](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v600/labarbedor/9251000/IMG_1047_zps96b76467.jpg)
![Image](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v600/labarbedor/9251000/IMG_1041_zpse1a91e4d.jpg)
![Image](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v600/labarbedor/9251000/IMG_1043_zps355582e1.jpg)