www.925-1000.com

Hello,

I would like to have more information relative to these marks, but unfortunatly I do not have any book relating to Spanish silver.

What I read :
- CAR/XO : silversmith ?
- BAR under a star ? : probably Barcelona, XVIIIe s., but I could not be more precise.
- unidentified mark (mark proving that purity was tested ? that taxes were paid, like "charge" mark for French silver of 18e century ?)

http://hpics.li/3a46ad4


Any help apreciated, thanks.

Hi,

You will have far more chance of getting an answer if you embed your images as very few people will click on links or thumbnails.



Trev.

Tanks for your help Trev !

The only thing that I can add is that the centre mark is one used at Barcelona and that it was in use during the the first half of the 19th century.

Trev.

It's really Barcelona. Most likely the beginning of the 19th century. Unfortunately the maker (or assayer?) is unknown to me.
Best regards.

Dear Ubaranda,
Thank you for your confirmation.
Can you give me the reference of the book from which the image is extracted ?

I am surprised that for a main city like Barcelona, the book displays the mark for 16th c.,1825, but not for 17th c nor 18th c. !
I seems that there is not so many books about Spanish marks, isn't ?

Thanks.

Hi anikopol!
It's not a book. It's site http://www.munozarce.com/index.htm
There are two most interesting and useful section:
http://www.munozarce.com/contrastes/loc ... efault.htm
http://www.munozarce.com/contrastes/pla ... /index.htm

Best regards.

Buenos días.
Barcelona utilizó esa marca entre los siglos XVIII y XIX. (La Cruz de San Jorge, patrón de la ciudad, sobre las siglas BAR.)
Adjunto una foto del ensayador utilizada a mediados del XVIII.
Siento no conocer mas datos.
Saludos

Google translation:
Good Morning.
Barcelona used that mark between the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries. (The Cross of St. George, patron saint of the city, on the acronym BAR.)
Attached is a photo of the assayer used in the middle of the XVIII.
Sorry to hear no more data.
regards

Hi everyone,

I've found this topic now and i'd like to clear information.

About city hallmarks. As our colleague has indicated, +BAR, is used during the 18th century until 1853. But it's not a cross of St george, but a Malta's cross.

CAR/XO corresponds to the hallmark of the first consul marker of Barcelona for the year 1773, Francesc Carrutxo. We do not rule out that he may have been first marker consul some other year.

Regards

Jaume

Hi Jaume,

Thanks for your additionnal comment.
A Spanish scholar that I contacted wrote me that it was indeed from Barcelona, probably around 1760-80.
He did not write anything about Francesco Carrutxo's mark, so your information is precious.
Could you please tell us was is your source for this information about Carrutxo ? Many thanks.

The (probable) silversmith's mark is still mysterious. It looks like a tree, or a spray of flower, without any letter.
I am not a specialist of Spanish silver, but it seems that there is very little information so far about Barcelona silvermith's marks.

CRESPO CÁRDENAS, JUAN. The art of silversmithing in Ciudad Real, 1621 - 1808. University of Castilla la Mancha, Faculty of Letters of Ciudad Real, Department of Art History. Doctoral thesis.

CRESPO CÁRDENAS, JUAN. El arte de la platería en Ciudad Real, 1621 - 1808. Universidad de Castilla la Mancha, Facultad de Letras de Ciudad Real, departamento de Historia del Arte. Tesis doctoral.

Saludos

Hi Anikopol,

II am trying to compile the list of consuls who marked Barcelona during the 18th and 19th centuries. It is complicated but possible. I am attaching a document dated 22-10-1773 where Fco. Carrutxo is listed as the first consul. I think it is almost 100% certain that he did not act as a consul marker in any other year. It is a document from the council of silversmiths written in Catalan. The consuls used to mark part of their family name. This makes it easier to identify them.
Identifying the silversmith is more complicated because they marked with initials or symbols (normally heraldic,as..talking images). But with persistence it is possible to identify the silversmith, sometimes.
I dare not tell you which silversmith is your object. My eyesight seems to show me a pear, and "Pera" is a common family name in Catalonia. But perhaps my eyesight is deceiving me.

Regards.

Jaume

Thanks Funkel for the refence book you mentionned.
If my understanding is correct, this book covers silver production of the Ciudad Real province, which does not include Barcelona. I presume that you nevertheless indicate this latter book because it includes an updated bibliography (as of 2021) relating to studies on old Spanish silver, all provinces included (based on my translation of the book presentation in Spanish here https://www.cofradiainternacionaldeinve ... ades-1.pdf) ?

Hi Jaume, thanks a lot for your comments.
Your research seems very interesting, since it seems not possible yet, as I understand, to know the precise marking year for Barcelona production of 18th-early 19th century.
Regarding Barcelona consuls : were they nominated/elected only for one year ? according to local silversmith regulation, could a consul be re-elected/nominated for additional term(s) ?
Regarding the silversmith's mark : thanks for having shared your hypothesis. As all silver collectors/scholars know, marks are not always simple to read (to decipher !), and your interpretation is an attrative one. Since you have a specific knowlege relating to archives related to Barcelona, may I ask you if some registers (or metal plate, as it can sometimes be found in French archives) relating to registration of Barcelona silversthmith still exist today ?

That's right Anikopol.
There are no manuals with the marks of the consul markers or of the silversmiths of the city of Barcelona. In Catalonia, only those of Mataró, Reus, Vic and those of the master silversmiths of the rest of Catalonia examined in the city have been preserved.
They existed at the beginning of the 20th century. They were bought by an architect from Barcelona together with the archive of silversmiths of the city but they were consulted to an antique dealer in Barcelona and they have never been found again. The rest of the archive of silversmiths was deposited in Montserrat (the main medieval archive until the end of the 18th century) and some documents are in the Municipal Archive of Barcelona and in the Library of Catalonia.
The way to elect the consul markers was by an assembly of the College of Silversmiths and for a period of one year. They did not usually repeat in the position but there are exceptions. For example, Francesc Pagès (PA/GES) 1742-1747 and some who have been consuls again: Joan Angelí (ANGELI) (1788, 1791, 1794, 1798, 1802 and 1805). It is complicated but it can help because the objects evolve according to the artistic currents and having the mark of the consul, you can establish a chronological section.
Another problem is the family dynasties. Some consuls have up to three generations in the college of silversmiths and they used to use their abbreviated surname as a mark. This complicates dating but it is a way of having essential information.
For the silversmiths' marks, in the 18th century they usually used symbols. Sometimes they added a letter of their surname. Heraldry and knowledge of Catalan surnames can help but it is really complicated although from time to time there is some successful case in identification.
It is a pity that the brand books of the city of Barcelona were lost.
It is a brief explanation of why you do not find a "corpus" of brands like in other states or cities.
Kind regards.
Jaume

Hi Jaume,

Thanks a lot for this very detailed answer.
I think it is a pleasure to have the opportunity to read and share on this forum the opinion and explanation of several passionate and knowledgable people like you.
Your story about the "journey" of the Barcelona silversmiths registers is quite fascinating : these archives appearing and disapearing in the hands of people who, theorically, should never have detained such documents...
But as art specialists know, archive and known antiques sometimes disappear (or are "forgotten"), but also re-appear (and are re-discovered) unexpectedly.
So maybe, one day these registers could be rediscovered... possibly in a surprising place !

You also pointed out a classical problem when it comes to research on past artists, silversmiths in our case :
past in the time, that was quite common for boys to enter in the family business, and to take over their father workshop and function, creating sort of family dynasties.
In addition, it was also a tradition to give to the first male child the name of its father (or sometimes grandfather, that could be also godfather), and generally speaking just a few traditional first names were used in a given region, and homophony seems to not have been considered as problematic. I suppose that in everyday life, people with the same names were often named using a knickname, and precision like "John the Eldest/John the Young", etc.
That being said, centuries latter when making research based on few documents,it does not make always things easy !

Kind regards