www.925-1000.com

Please can you confirm whether the marks on this spoon are genuine, who the assay master can be, and what the date is likely to be?

It is 184mm (7.5") long, and the bowl is 64mm (2.5") across, so is either a soup or a serving spoon. It is gold washed all over, with heavier gilding in the bowl

The Assay master / date stamp was too wide for the octagonal shaft, so the date is missing. Earlier threads suggest that AK is as yet unidentified, but it's possible that recent research may now have found him?

The engraved bird on the back might be a jackdaw with its distinctive face mask, and the flowers emerging from below the branch might be elder, but I can't find a likely reference, if there is one (eg folklore), or whether this helps identification.

I haven't seen a spoon like it on the forum or elsewhere, so can't judge for myself. Hopefully someone knows?
Many thanks.

Hi ionicorder -
this is no easy case!
First the facts: assayer AK is according to PL p.205/2108 Kowalskij Andrej Antonowitsch 1821-1856. The spoon is of the quality you expect from the firm Khlebnikov - the marks are not!
Here some spoons assayed by Kowalskij and the correct dates he was on duty:
Semenov




Gubkin


Fake marks Ovtschinnikov - look at the St. Georg -and the wrong/impossible assay date of Kowalskij!

Again look at the sloppy punch and the grotesque St. Georg - compare with your spoon!


Klick photos to enlarge - sorry - Tinypics is down again!

Conclusion: spoon is authentic, engraving maybe, marks fake.

Regards
Goldstein

Dear Goldstein,

Thank you for your thoughts and for your useful images.
If I understand it correctly you have two concerns about the Assay Master's mark;
1. that it appears to be the wrong date, and
2. that it is too poor a quality to be correct.

Problem 2 is a matter for experience and connoiseurship which only you and the other Russian experts can bring to bear, and if this is your main concern then that must be the end of the matter. However, if the date of the Assay Master is more important, there might be room for a useful short discussion:

Before posting on the forum I did try to research the marks as far as was possible both here and elsewhere, and note that at least two regular contributors here appear to state that in addition to Kowalskij, there was another Moscow Assay Master with the mark AK, name not yet known, who operated from either 1879 or 1880 to 1883 which, if I'm correct about the history of his workshop, would fit well with a likely date of manufacture by Khlebnikov. They are:

Zolotnik on Mar 02, 2011 and again on Sep 11, 2012 on this thread: http://www.925-1000.com/forum/viewtopic ... cow#p75235 and

Qrt.S on Feb 27, 2009 on this thread: http://www.925-1000.com/forum/viewtopic ... cow#p51069

With this in mind I suppose my question might be refined to: Has the community come to a consensus about whether Moscow Assay Master AK 1879-83 existed or not?

If it is accepted that he did exist, would this change your conclusions about the spoon?

Many thanks again,
Ionicorder

Hello!
AK - Moscow assayer Alexander Staheevich Kudrin (Александр Стахиевич Кудрин). He worked in 1878-1882.
Information from address-reference books "All Moscow" (адресно-справочные книги "Вся Москва").
Regards.

Faked (top)and genuine (below) 1879 AK.
http://www.sammler.ru/index.php?showtopic=175223

Hi ionicorder -

There are two ways to verify the authenticity of the object of a particular vendor:
1) corresponds the quality of the object to already known from other, secured objects?
2) correspond all existing marks/punches to the usual / legal stamping of the certain time frame?

Informations (AK) without watertight source/s are worthless!

And another aspect: the firm of Khlebnikov knew exactly what they were doing! So when they brought spoons to the assayer they decided which punches were used to not disturb the total impression (aesthetics)! Fakers do not care - they only want you to see at once what they want you to see...
Punches you find often on bowls when there is not enough space on the stem!
Example:



Just my personal opinion.

Regards
Goldstein

Hi -
thanks to Ubaranda we have a source now!

Regards
Goldstein

Many thanks indeed to Goldstein, AG2012 and particularly Ubaranda who, I think, has solved a problem which has puzzled students of the period for some time. If it is permissible to offer links to web pages giving relevant information to help develop an attribution, here is one to a seller, Willard Ringborg, describing in 2006 a throne salt assayed by AK - now known to be Alexander Kudrin - in 1882:
http://www.ascasonline.org/articoloLL60.html
Of particular relevance he says:
(endnote) This observation might solve a puzzle in Postnikova-Loseva, the assay master stamp AK of 1882 (No 3865) to a city not known, has now evidence that it is this year to be referred to Moscow. Obviously, there was not one single assay master this year but 2-3, two ended 1881 and another two started 1883 executing the assaying function

Spurred to dig deeper I have found an even more glorious throne salt by Khlebnikov also assayed by AK in 1882, presented to Tzar Alexander III by Oscar Pilatsky on his coronation day in 1883. You have to scroll down to lot 279, but it's worth it:

(admin edit - see Posting Requirements )

Ionicorder