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Hi All,

I just purchased the following Geo III teapot and would like some opinions on the maker and date. Unfortunately it is date letter O which is always a problem in positively identifying the year as 1809 or 1789 and so this has compounded the problem of establishing the maker. Stylistically plus silver handles makes me think 1809 is most likely, but one never knows

In my opinion, the mark looked a reasonable match for Thomas Wallis I as he retired in 1785 so not a possibility. I assumed then it may have been Thomas Wallis II but he doesn't appear to have registered a mark containing a pellet like his father? Checking Grimwade, there are a couple of bucklemakers and smallworkers(Thomas Wilson & Thomas Willats) who are possibilities plus the largeworker,Thomas Wynner from Bath?

Apologies for the photos as they came from the seller and I wont receive the teapot for at least a week.

Any and all thoughts welcomed.

Steve

Hi Steve,

I think we are all hesitating, waiting until you have the teapot.

Trev.

OK so the teapot has arrived and here are some better photos of the marks. While uploading, I realised I missed taking the lion passant through the loupe but there is a reasonable shot of it on the combined photo. Happy to take another of it separately if wanted.

I have also noted two sets of matching secondary marks(lion passant and date letter O), one set on the handle the other on the lid.

Cheers,
Steve

Hi Steve,

To me, it's a mystery.

The only thing see of note, if the is the 'T·W' punch is that of Thomas Wallis (I), then it appears to be filed down a little on the right hand side top corner. This may indicate that the punch was starting to show damage, maybe a crack starting to develop, filed down, and then because of its suspected brittle nature, kept as a spare. I should think punches, especially at this time, were expensive items and I doubt TW (I) upon retirement would have destroyed or discarded such pieces and likely would have passed them on to his nephew, TW(II), who of course, has the same initials and may well have used them in a emergency if the need arose.

Another point, what was retirement for 'TW(I)'? He may well have retired from business on his own account, but he may well have "kept his hand in" working in his nephew's business. If so, perhaps he still, as a matter of pride, payment, or whatever, stamped his own work with his own punch. In those days, unless you were wealthy, you worked till you dropped. Just speculating (as usual!).

Trev.

Thomas Wallis (1) retired in 1785 and all his tools etc were sold. See below
By 1810, when his will (proved 1819) was made he'd moved to Waltham Abbey, Essex.
Although he may have passed just his old punches to his son, this seems unlikely.

If the dateletter "O" is for 1789 Wallis (1) is just possible , but 1809 look exceedingly unlikely.
However the actual mark looks very unlikely to be any of Wallis (1)'s


1 November 1785
Morning Post and Daily Advertiser carries an advert for the sale of the equipment , again by Mr Skinner.
"at the Premises in Monkwell Street, near Wood Street
THE WORKING TOOLS, IMPLEMENTS, UTENSILS, PATTERNS and FIXTURES the property of
Mr WALLACE, [sic] WORKING SILVERSMITH leaving off Trade
consisting of a general assortment of plate, Small Workers and Spoon Makers Tools in excellent condition , the patterns numerous , some of which are esteemed and many of in brass"