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London 1813 hallmarks or Pseudo marks?

Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2023 5:42 pm
by numis.geneve
Hello everyone, I am not a specialist in British silver, but I’ve handled quite a lot of it,although I have a hard time with the hallmarks on these plates.
The plates are very heavy, almost 600 grams each, indeed sterling, made of very thick hammered silver, hallmark for London 1813, were very tarnished.
However the leopard head is missing and the head of George III is a bit bizarre and the maker GSWE doesn’t exist, while strangely one of the George Smiths has an almost identical mark with GSWE.
Any ideas - provincial, colonial or indeed London?
Any ideas

Re: London 1813 hallmarks or Pseudo marks?

Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2023 5:48 pm
by numis.geneve

Re: London 1813 hallmarks or Pseudo marks?

Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2023 5:49 pm
by numis.geneve

Re: London 1813 hallmarks or Pseudo marks?

Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2023 5:53 pm
by numis.geneve
Sorry I meant to write: « while strangely one of the George Smiths has an almost identical mark with GSWF »

Re: London 1813 hallmarks or Pseudo marks?

Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2023 5:53 pm
by silvermakersmarks
Please embed your pictures so that everybody can see them without clicking on links (which not everybody is happy to do).

Re: London 1813 hallmarks or Pseudo marks?

Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2023 6:12 pm
by numis.geneve
Image

Re: London 1813 hallmarks or Pseudo marks?

Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2023 6:13 pm
by numis.geneve
Image

Re: London 1813 hallmarks or Pseudo marks?

Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2023 6:15 pm
by numis.geneve
Image

Re: London 1813 hallmarks or Pseudo marks?

Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2023 4:55 am
by numis.geneve
I also wanted to add the the plates were previously gold gilded, the gold can still be seen on the back and some other areas, which means they were quite heavily polished in the past

Re: London 1813 hallmarks or Pseudo marks?

Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2023 4:59 am
by numis.geneve
Image

Re: London 1813 hallmarks or Pseudo marks?

Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:13 am
by silvermakersmarks
It's definitely a pseudo-mark. Possibly Chinese?

Re: London 1813 hallmarks or Pseudo marks?

Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:26 am
by numis.geneve
That’s an interesting theory, that would explain the excessive thickness and weight associated with Chinese production , however the hallmarks are of slightly better quality than what we see usually from Chinese pseudo marks. Possibly a very early Chinese production, that could also be imitating London 1793 rather than 1813?

Re: London 1813 hallmarks or Pseudo marks?

Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:32 am
by dognose
I agree with Phil that the marks are pseudo.

They perhaps represent marks seen on a spoon by by the Smith-Fearn partnership, which would account for the lack of a city mark, and the 'E' being mistaken for 'F'.

Trev.

Re: London 1813 hallmarks or Pseudo marks?

Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2023 1:15 pm
by numis.geneve
Thank you Phil and Trev for your answers, you confirm my suspicions on the hallmarks being pseudo. For now my main theory is China, possibly Canton towards 1800. If someone thinks otherwise your thoughts would be greatly appreciated