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I am told this is a Dutch sugar shaker. The handles seem odd for a sugar shaker. 7 inches tall.

Can you help identify?

I hope to get a good photo of marks soon.

Hi,

Indeed a strange composed (Dutch) caster. How is the pierced top attached to the base? The pierced top, in terms of style it doesn't fit.
My first impression it is a marriage, the base is a (flower) vase and and remade into a caster. Please show all the marks of the pierced top and the marks of the base.


Peter

oel wrote: ↑Wed Feb 07, 2024 10:10 am Hi,

Indeed a strange composed caster. How is the pierced top attached to the base?
My first impression it is a marriage, the base is a (flower) vase and and remade into a caster. Please show all the marks of the pierced top and the marks of the base.


Peter

Thank you Peter. The pierced top fits snugly into base. Yes, there are marks on the top as well as the base. I will have photos a bit later. I was particularly fascinated with the piece when an antique dealer was anxious for me to leave it with him.

::::: I'm doing a thought-experiment, imagining that I was the silversmith who was modifying a vase and fitting it with a sugar-caster top in order to make the entire object into a sugar caster.......:::::::

::::: As the silversmith, why would I pierce the base with all those ovals around the base of the top? Wouldn't all those ovals around the base of the top make this a poor sugar caster? Wouldn't all the sugar leak out all over the table? ::::::::

:::::: Of course I thought it was a sugar shaker. But the design of the top keeps bothering me. It would be better suited to something like an incense burner. But assigning the function of incense burner to this object doesn't make much sense either. ::::::::

:::: update: I've found a Dutch Sugar Shaker from 1880 with a very similar top & a claim is made that this style of top is emulating Dutch Sugar Shakers from the years 1740 to 1760. ::::::: Is it possible this is one of the original Dutch Sugar Shakers from the years 1740 to 1760 therefore the top would be original to the piece? :::::::

OK, I have some more information via pictures below. 1835? I still do not understand design. Thank you.

At the base of the “shaker” Dutch lion passant above 2, in hexagon, 2nd standard mark for silver 833/000, with export key. D pseudo year letter. The original maker’s mark, unclear. Pseudo year letter B.
Please check the body for other marks, these could be hidden in the decoration.
For information about Dutch pseudo marks see;https://www.925-1000.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=56948

The marks at pierced lid, Dutch lion passant above 2, 2nd standard mark however without an export key. Minerva head/office mark, the regional assay office letter not visible/rubbed out. Year letter Gothic I for 1893. For Dutch hallmarks see; https://www.925-1000.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=32028

It is uncommon to find two standard marks of the lion passant on one object. In the lid, you should expect to find a maker’s mark and sword mark. The small standard mark minimum 833/000.
The absence of the export key 2nd standard mark pierced lid. The whole object, to me it looks like it has been tampered with. The handles may have been added later. Most likely the lid was added to what appears to be a vase.

Peter

Very interesting! Thank you Peter.

I did find another mark on the lid ti messed before.



fred

Wow. I think I found another mark. I thought it was a flaw, but closer exam looks like a stamp of some kind. Under rim at top of base.

Using my imagination, it looks like a knight riding a dragon! :)

Really fascinating Peter.

In your opinion, what would I call this piece? Perhaps a pseudo shaker? :)

(admin edit - see Posting Requirements )

Again, thank you for taking the time. I have learned a lot.

Fred

fwunder wrote: ↑Thu Feb 08, 2024 5:21 pm Wow. I think I found another mark. I thought it was a flaw, but closer exam looks like a stamp of some kind. Under rim at top of base.

Using my imagination, it looks like a knight riding a dragon! :)

Great imagination, it is the assay office mark/ Minerva head, regional assay office letter probably E for Groningen

fwunder wrote: ↑Thu Feb 08, 2024 4:45 pm Very interesting! Thank you Peter.

I did find another mark on the lid ti messed before.



fred

Hi Fred, it looks like another pseudo year letter A, like the other pseudo marks on the base.

Peter.

Source: K.A. Citroen, Valse Zilvermerken in Nederland

The pseudo marks are part of the decoration, it has authentic Dutch 19th century hallmarks. For a sugar shaker/caster the whole thing may look strange. Certainly, the two handles make it easy to pass the sugar caster to guests when eating a sweet dessert at the table. Or when eating Dutch mini pancakes. Enjoy your caster/shaker.

Peter.

Peter,

This is a much better image of base marks.

Probably a stretch, but maybe a well worn...?

https://www.925-1000.com/forum/viewtopi ... 13#p184413



Good stuff!

Much better image of the marks! You are right it is the maker's mark of Rinze Jans Spaanstra. Spaanstra used the pseudo mark VB(#357), an imitation of a maker's mark. This pseudo mark is partly struck on the base of your shaker. The other pseudo mark perhaps letter P on curved bar (#280), imitation of a maker's mark.
Yes pseudo marks can confuse you, and make you think you have found a piece of medieval spoon bowl, also in the UK.
https://finds.org.uk/database/artefacts ... /id/434919
By the way, are you sure there is no year letter on the body, it can be tiny and hidden in the decoration?

Peter.

Source; K.A. Citroen, Valse Zilvermerken in Nederland, (#357) page 357 and (#280) page 42.