Mistery gold Mark on French silver knife

[naina1st]

Dear Members,

The attached images are for the silver vermeil knifes by Josef Baptiste Fuchs bearing 7 different marks for 1819-1838.
One of those is "hibou" with stick out "ears" in oval. As far as I know that is the mark for composed items with gold content at least 50% since 1838. The recense mark (head of giraffe) and the owl both have the different symbols for departments. I failed to identify them based on Tardy.
My questions are as follows.
1. What does the owl on this knife?
2. Could somebody to help to identify the departments?
3. Why there are marks for two departments?

Thank you for your attention and help.


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[naina1st]

More comfortable view

[JayT]

Your knife has done some travelling. As you know it was made in Paris by the cutler Joseph-Baptiste Fuchs. This is the mark he used from 1833-1843. In 1838 the knife was subject to the recount in the Department of the Gard, office in Nîmes as seen by the giraffe head poinçon de recense with the Greek letter phi under the animal’s muzzle for Nîmes. Fast forward to 1984-present when the owl mark was punched. I’ve seen this mark only twice before. It is placed on second-hand objects (ouvrages d’occasion) containing gold that are sold at public auction or at the national pawn shops (credit municipal). Your picture is too blurry on my monitor to decipher the mark on the owl’s chest, so I cannot tell you where the owl mark was punched. If you could sharpen it up I might be able to help more. Thank you for showing this interesting mark.

[naina1st]

Many thanks, JayT!

I am with your regarding the head of giraffe. It looks very similar to the symbol of Nimes.

As for the owl I tried to do my best to capture the symbol on the owl chest more visible. Here is the best achievement, at least more reflecting what I saw in microscope for all the knifes.

I failed to find some correspondence with the modern symbols for departments.
For me the old symbol for Melun, dept. 73, Seine-et-Marne, is the only match, not exact yet. Also Algerian Setif looks similar (less then more).
What is your opinion?

I appreciate indeed your information about the owl mark. Would be so kind to give me the reference?

Thank you very much for your time.
Best Regards.
Tatiana

[JayT]

Thank you for the sharpened image of the owl. As best as I can tell this is the mark for either Nice or Monaco, [both places are close to Nîmes] but you would have to judge for yourself as the image still appears somewhat distorted on my monitor, and I don’t have enough experience with the owl mark to be certain. In either case this is a recent mark.

For the owl mark see: Markezana, Yves. Les poinçons français d’or, d’argent, de platine de 1275 à nos jours. Éditions Vial, 2005. pp. 119, 126. The owl mark on second-hand objects containing gold is analogous to the swan mark for silver.

For the giraffe head mark see Markezana p. 123 and Tardy, 20th edition, p. 201.

Hope this helps.

[naina1st]

Dear JayT,

Thank you for the reference, I have just purchased the book on eBay.
Your comments on owl's symbol are appreciated. I am not yet certain but may be it is not really important what the dept is in connection with the symbol. The most important is your information about the owl, what it is and why that one is punched on the silver item.
I am very-very grateful for your real assistance.

Best Regards.
Tatiana

[JayT]

My pleasure Tatiana.