Silver ladle with inserted Dutch silver coin

[oel]

Hi, a friend of mine asks for information.

Silver ladle inserted silver coin city of Utrecht, with the Hat of Liberty, struck in 1703. The maker’s initials (maker’s mark) CO stamped twice. Not many Dutch maker’s mark CO prior 1812, only one unidentified in Netherlands 1740-? The spoon could have been made in Northern Europe but also in America 18th-19th century.




We appreciate any information, thanks.

Oel.

[Joerg]

Hi Peter
I notice the coin is from 1793!!!
Then it is worn, was heavy circulating, I assume at least 30 years. This would bring the earliest year of manufacturing to around 1820. I even tend toward 1860, why placing in the 1820ies a 30 year old worn coin in a ladle? You can insert a crisper 30 year old piece. It makes more sense in the 1860ies, using a 80 year old worn coin.
Will it help identifying the maker if we place the ladle in a period starting 1820, maybe extending to 1860/1870?
Kind regards, Jörg

[Dendriet]

Hi,

This coin could be from the "NETHERLANDS WEST INDIES".

Best regards.
Dendriet

[oel]

Hi Jörg,

Thank you very much. Herewith some extra images. The coin is called an Utrecht provincial guilder, Republic of the Seven United Netherlands struck 1581 till 1795 French occupation-Batavia Republic. Yes, the coin could be marked 1793.
















The decoration of the ladle makes me believe late 18th early 19th century and the ladle could have been used as a silent protest against the French occupation by die- hard Republicans.

Best,

Peter

[oel]

Hi Dendriet,

Good point the ladle could have been made in former Dutch Indies, todays Indonesia.

Best,

Peter

[Dendriet]

Hi Peter

I could not see the back of the coin, and now I can see the difference.
See appendix coin "NETHERLANDS WEST INDIES"


Best regards
Dendriet

[Joerg]

Hi
I learned a lot on Dutch coins today. Was worth the time spent. The coin is from Utrecht, 1793. The City mark is the arms between the hat and Dutch maid. See here circled on a 1793 one guilder coin picture I found in the Internet:

(I think they used another stamp, small differences in the letter T of the word TUEMUR. Check the7 and the 3 on the date, it is identical, from the same master die)
Other provinces made the same coin, but with different mint marks.
I still belive the coin is heavily circulated, and was inserted rather long after minting, however I am not fanatic here. Looking forward to more insight from other colleagues.
Regards, Jörg

[oel]

Hi Jörg, in Latin Tra/ Trai for Traiectum= Utrecht guilders seen with and without the Utrecht city Mint mark. Utrecht has the oldest Mint right.
Other province cities with Mint right and the Mint of Utrecht sometimes overstruck guilders, ìn Dutch overslag overstrike, overstruck coin
réformation, surfrappe,Überprägung

http://munthunter.nl/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=7176&p=69720

The different provinces clearly marked the guilder´s coin site with their own Latin short name.

D.G. & C.Z.
D.GEL. & C.Z. Ducatus Gelriae et Comitatus Zutphaniae. Gelderland and Zutphen.

HOL Hollandia Holland

TRA
TRAI Traiectum Utrecht

TRANS Transisulania Overijssel

WESTF Westfrisia West-Friesland

ZEL Zelandia Zeeland

For example

Nederlands Indie. VOC Province West-Friesland, 1 guilder 1786/61


Province Gelderland

Province Zelandia



The Utrecht coin´s face in the ladle also could have been over cleaned-polished.



The coin´s tale is in a better shape


Peter.

[Dendriet]

Hi Dendriet,
Good point the ladle could have been made in former Dutch Indies, todays Indonesia.
Best, Peter

Peter,

The coin of the Netherlands West Indies refers to Utrecht (TRAI = Traiectum Utrecht)
There was a trade relationship that we have with that country.
I have the strong suspicion that the Dutch coins were shipped to the Netherlands Indies, to produce these ladles
Silver but also the production in that country was much cheaper.
But I know that this is just an assumption.

Best regards
Dendriet

[AG2012]

Peter is far more familiar with Dutch ladle patterns,type of engraving etc. The ladle was not necessarily made close to mintage year, could be later,contemporary but also much older (cut off the circular hole and solder the coin as demanded by the owner, for whatever reason).
The lack of well established assaying may indicate West Indies, as suggested.
An interesting article regarding the issue.
http://www.ascasonline.org/articoloAGOST116.html
Best wishes

[R ingo]

Hello Peter,

there was a gold smith Claus Otzen from Haderslev / Hadersleben in Denmark with the mark "CO". The most pieces I know from him are marked with double "CO".
Here an example: http://soelvske.dk/Web/Byer/Haderslev/Claus+Otzen
He died 1806 and to my opinion the ladle was made in the early 19th century. So the time is short. I am not sure.

Best regards,
Ringo

[AG2012]

Marks of the maker suggested by RIngo (sugar caster).
Struck twice.

[Dendriet]

hi all,

Going in the right direction.
Looks really good.


Dendriet

[oel]

To All,

Thank you very much. I believe Ringo pointed us into the right direction and I go for Claus Otzen .
The maker's mark on the ladle struck twice





Best wishes,

Peter