Rat-tail mocca spoons

[dolpheus]

Hello, friends,

this nice mocca spoon set i saved from devastation. I don't made chemical tests, but i am almost sure, it is solid, gilded silver. But all other is somewhat confusing for me.
About design : they are hand engraved in typical rococo design, also they have rat-tail bowl and dog-nose. So, my impression is, they are second half 18-century (1700's). Somewhat confusing is, they are in very good condition, but it mean nothing.
Three these spoons are absolutely un-marked. Two have 2 marks, as you see on photos. I am unsure about these marks and i welcome your help. Is it dutch sword mark 1814-1905 ? And, who is maker? I have found W.F. Schuss from Amsterdam, working 1867 - 1883 and having anchor-symbol +WS in his mark. But, his mark i have seen is absolutelly diferent in style, frame etc. So, how it is?
Also there is difference in spoon's body proportions (another rat-tail etc.) and great difference in engraving, by close seen.

My personal opinion is
- Three un-marked spoons (on first photos are from your right) are older, made in rococo period (1700's) and are a part of great table service. (but, why un-marked? and who is maker? and from where?)
As the time go, some spoons were losed, purloined, or, possibly, 6-th person set was up-graded to 12-person? Who know, but if, the actual owner contact nearby silver-maker to help. Possibly it was W.F.Schuss?

I dont know, i am almost virgin in dutch silver. So, every help welcomme!
Especially interesting for me is, are these spoons made simultaneously? But if, why different and some unmarked? Or is true my conspiration about old service reparation?

Many thanks for help and interests

Martin

[AG2012]

Hi,
I think the spoons bear Dutch ``sward`` marks used much later than you assumed.
Look here:
http://www.925-1000.com/Fnetherlands_Date_Code.html
There are experts on Dutch silver here who might provide more detailed info.
Best wishes

[Dendriet]

Hi ALL,



Schuss wed. W.F.
(Bruning, Johanna Maria)
Amsterdam
1883 – 1890

Regards Dendriet

[Dendriet]

Hi all,

I looked if I could find such spoons made by Schuss.

Why these are made with gold plating, rat-tail, rococo design etc .. is easy to explain.
It sold well, and much in demand

Regards Dendriet

[Dendriet]

Hi all,

You're right, some have a different pattern.
The only explanation I can give for this, there have been made new spoons
Waiting for other opinions.

Regards
Dendriet

[dolpheus]

Many thanks, Dendriet.

Yes, 3 - spoons are different from 2 - spoons.
So, it is set of two similar, hallmarked Dutch spoons made by Schuss between 1883-90.
And of three similar, unmarked spoons from unknown origin.

Between these two sets is different pattern engrawing and also different whole spoons-body (thickness-difference, different rat-tail).
Evidently, one set was made as a copy of the another set.
3-spoons set (unmarked) seems to be...Hard to say... older, or coarse, somewhat corroded surface. Also some engrawing lines are thicker. But abraded are similarly, also gilding is similarly scraped-off.

Question is - can be made this little mocca spoon (14-15 g Ag for one) in Dutch without marks at all?? (i.e. without makermark and without official hallmark) And when?? Before 1814?
Or can be made in Belgium without every marks at all? When?

Again-many many thanks all

M.

[Aguest]

Belgium did not have hallmarks from 1868 until 1942. Sometimes they did have hallmarks, but the hallmarking was not compulsory.

I found a pair of beautiful cast berry spoons in a pigskin (or leather) case that tested for .800 silver, and they have absolutely no hallmarks whatsoever, so the only conclusion I came to is that they were from Belgium made in late 19th century.

[Dendriet]

Hi all,

In my opinion, all spoons are made in the same time, just by different manufacturers.
I bought often silver cutlery (Germany or Belgium or France) with all the same monogram (owner) but with different makers marks.
I must confess that this is not often the case with Dutch silver cutlery.
In these spoons, there are no monogram.

There was a great turmoil associated with opposition and taxes.
Look for the same period in Germany and the production of Hanau.
Belgium was forced to implement the law of 1869-1942.
http://www.925-1000.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=44756

All this reflected the fact that silver in Germany and France was much cheaper.
Normal is required in the Netherlands to comply with the assay office
In the book of Netherlands responsibility marks from 1797, there are several law amendments and arrangements proved to fall short each time, the result is a half-measur.


some examples

In France, Germany and Belgium, they also had 800.

Those Were The Days

Regards Dendriet