Brandy bowl?

[lellastiekje]

Best everybody,

Can somebody tell me what this is (i think a brandy bowl?) and if possible what the hallmarks mean????

The bowl is beautifully engraved end looks 18th century. Can somebody tell me is that's correct?

Following the photo's!

Kind regards daniella

[AG2012]

Hi,
Can you take better close up images of the marks, please ? They do not look European but on the other hand, engraved inscriptions are in Latin; one with the mirror is ``VISVS`` or ``Visus`` in Latin meaning Vision. If there are more engraved panels, close up images are appreciated..
Regards

[lellastiekje]

I'll make and post them right away!

[lellastiekje]

[oel]

Hi Daniella, indeed a brandy bowl.

Believe I do recognize the ZII mark (835) for used objects, introduced 1953-present. The other marks could be pseudo marks and LM could be an imitation of a maker's mark.

Peter

[lellastiekje]

Yes i've recocnized that one to. This is a mark because it had been send to the graduate office and they had to remark it to prove that it's silver. I was wondering about the old marks and if it's a brandy bowl?

[AG2012]

Hi,
I opt for Hanau, ``the bunch of grapes`` being widely used there. Another word is ``TACTVS`` meaning ``touch, so there is ``vision and touch``.
If you are not familiar with Hanau silver take a look here:
http://www.925-1000.com/Fgerman_hanau_marks_01.html
All said, I doubt it`s 18th century, most probably Hanau end 19th century.
Regards

[AG2012]

Wine tasters (tastevin in French) are usually shallow.
Brandy bowl makes sense (Branntweinschale in German).
Often with two handles, but one handle is not uncommon.

[lellastiekje]

I just found out that one of the latin shield is engraved with an shield of a coat-of-arm of 2 colliding families from Frisia. Perhaps the marks can be traced back to Frisia??

[oel]

Do not think so, not Dutch Frisia. For more info see cities of Frisia (Friesland):
http://www.925-1000.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=32028
To make sure I will ask our Theodrich to have a look

Oel.

[lellastiekje]

Thank you! i'll add a new picture of the coat-of-arm, tomorrow!

[oel]

Received reply

Hello Peter,

for me the objekt it looks like a fake or historism .

I am not sure about the hallmarks.

It is possible to get a very good image of the marks?

Best Wishes
Theo

Peter.

[lellastiekje]

Here they are!

[AG2012]

Hi,
Medieval allegory of the five senses VISUS (sight), TACTUS (touching), AUDITUS (hearing), GUSTUS (taste) and ODORATUS (smell). Are there five panels or one taste is missing ?
ALLEGORIEN DER FUENF SINNE appear on German 17th century silver and widely depicted in painting and etching.
The marks: L dot N, bunch of grapes or acorn, crowned O. There seem to be one more rectangular mark (red arrow). What is it?
Based on overall appearance, quality of engraving and marks, I opt for pseudo marks. ``Historismus`` end 19th century.
Regards

[oel]

Hi AG,

Your red arrow point to the Dutch ZII mark (835) for used objects, introduced 1953-present.

The; ZI (925 fineness) ZII(835 fineness) and Z(800 fineness)

Crowned O;
In March 1807, by order of the King of Holland, a new hallmark law on the working, importing and sale of gold and silver objects, including the levy of duty on the same was implemented. Silver smiths, retailers and silver- shop holders could, for a few weeks, bring in their old hallmarked and previous made silver & gold objects and have those objects stamped with the crowned O, the capital letter O for the Dutch word 'Onbelast=dutyfree; free of charge and no tax Duty.
After this period, a tax duty had to be paid and the crowned B was applied, the capital letter B for the Dutch word 'Belasting'=Tax. After the 18th of April 1807, officially no work with old hallmarks was allowed to be sold without the crowned O, unless tax was paid and the object stamped with the crowned B. NB. Many variations of the crowned O were used in this short period and the crowned O often has been faked for duty dodging and other reasons. All duty and import mark give no guarantee of the standard or fineness of the silver/gold used.

Regards,

Peter

[AG2012]

Hi,
Was thinking of that but the form is different. On the other hand, Rosenberg #7541 claims ``in different forms`` . I am not familiar with different forms of this mark, so, it`s not for me to judge.
If it`s really 1807 mark, then the bowl is older than I thought. Two Dutch ``Nachpruefungsstempel`` cannot be the coincidence.
Still, bunch of grapes or acorn cannot be associated with anything we know.

[oel]

Hi Ag,

Many variations of the crowned O were used in this short period and the crowned O often has been faked for duty dodging and other reasons.
The crowned O has been faked and I believe it to be another pseudo mark.

Peter

[AG2012]

Hi,
It makes sense now.
All said, there is nothing to justify an earlier date than 19th century.
Thank you.

[lellastiekje]

Thanks everybody for the replies.

It much appriciated