Very worn out / faint marks on sugar bowl holder

[MiloRichards]

Hello folks

First post here - so I hope this is the right place to post.

I'm struggling to identify the marks on the under side of a sugar bowl holder. The only thing seemingly clear is a '4' at the bottom right.

I would be most grateful for any pointers on this - even if someone points out that it's clearly some kind of forged stamp! Hopefully the photo is clear enough, if not please do say and I'll post more.

Many thanks for any help.

Milo

[silverfan]

the right mark could be for Wilhelm Müller Berlin (see German marks after 1886), the left mark could be a wheel (Mainz?) The other marks are not legible.
Regards silverfan

[silverfan]

the right mark could be for Wilhelm Müller Berlin (see German marks after 1886), the left mark could be a wheel. The other marks are not legible.
Regards silverfan

[MiloRichards]

Thanks Silverfan for your reply. I've checked out Wilhelm Muller but still can't seem to get a match, due to like you say their illegibility.

A slightly broader question for anyone (I'm not that knowledgeable in this subject), but is it usual for hallmarks to become so faded? That to me seems to suggest an awful lot of polishing/buffing/or handling over the years! And the wheel was a good spot, but again is 'doubled stamping' known?

I know a little off topic but it is related to identifying this particular mark.

Regards
Milo

[MiloRichards]

A little update on this if anyone is interested!

It turns out to be Elkington & Co 1844, or so I am advised, so very much an English item after all.