Strange brooch
Strange brooch
I find this brooch a bit dubious. It looks like it is "constructed". What I know is that the needle is a later replacement. Do not pay any attention to it. Anyway, what i find strange is that the rivet has damaged the marks meaning that it is riveted after it has been assayed, why? The kokshnik is badly punched and "double". In addition, rather uncommon that Hjalmar Armfelt made jewelry. What might be your opinion, junk or?
Re: Strange brooch
Hi Qrt.S, the silver brooch would have been assayed in a plain status before the enamel was applied and the monogram was riveted. I see nothing wrong.
Best,
Peter
Best,
Peter
Re: Strange brooch
Hi,
The quality of white enamel is questionable.There are too many imperfections (inclusions, blemishes) when firing.Every white enamel watch dial looks better. I have no pieces made by Faberge subcontractors to compare with, but I have enameled objects by e.g. Jensen, A. Michelsen, D.Andersen as well as by unknown makers. White enamel does not have a single inclusion.
That`s what I see in the image.
Regards
The quality of white enamel is questionable.There are too many imperfections (inclusions, blemishes) when firing.Every white enamel watch dial looks better. I have no pieces made by Faberge subcontractors to compare with, but I have enameled objects by e.g. Jensen, A. Michelsen, D.Andersen as well as by unknown makers. White enamel does not have a single inclusion.
That`s what I see in the image.
Regards
Re: Strange brooch
@Oel
I see a few problems. It is obvious that the enameled part has been attached later for the reason that the hallmark would have otherwise destroyed the enameled part. However, I am quite sure that the holes for the rivets were drilled in the base before it was brought to the assayer. In addition, why did the assayer hit his punch almost on the hole!???? There was lots of space elsewhere. Another problem is the double punch of the hallmark, why? To distract a possible buyer? I don't like the kokshnik's outlook.....A third problem is the quality. It is not so high as it should be for Hjalmar's work. A fourth problem is that Hjalmar Armfelt didn't make jewelry! Who is this ЯА suppose to be? I don't think this brooch is made by Hjalmar but by somebody else from scrap found in the workshop or wherever.
I see a few problems. It is obvious that the enameled part has been attached later for the reason that the hallmark would have otherwise destroyed the enameled part. However, I am quite sure that the holes for the rivets were drilled in the base before it was brought to the assayer. In addition, why did the assayer hit his punch almost on the hole!???? There was lots of space elsewhere. Another problem is the double punch of the hallmark, why? To distract a possible buyer? I don't like the kokshnik's outlook.....A third problem is the quality. It is not so high as it should be for Hjalmar's work. A fourth problem is that Hjalmar Armfelt didn't make jewelry! Who is this ЯА suppose to be? I don't think this brooch is made by Hjalmar but by somebody else from scrap found in the workshop or wherever.
Re: Strange brooch
Hi Qrt.S,
The maker's mark ЯА ; you mentioned Hjalmar Armfelt and have doubts. The quality of the brooch and the fact, you mentioned Hjalmar never made jewelery, ЯА is for an other and unknown maker. To me it appears the first punch, the mis struck was further away from the rivet hole and it left a shadow of the number 8 in the Kokoshniks face. Most of us know the silver market is flooded with Russian fakes, one little red herring we walk away.
What do do you know about the brooch provenance and what is the claim of the owner/seller?
Peter.
The maker's mark ЯА ; you mentioned Hjalmar Armfelt and have doubts. The quality of the brooch and the fact, you mentioned Hjalmar never made jewelery, ЯА is for an other and unknown maker. To me it appears the first punch, the mis struck was further away from the rivet hole and it left a shadow of the number 8 in the Kokoshniks face. Most of us know the silver market is flooded with Russian fakes, one little red herring we walk away.
What do do you know about the brooch provenance and what is the claim of the owner/seller?
Peter.
Re: Strange brooch
Hi -
The hollow pressing is a mechanical process with which objects made of smooth sheet metal can be produced in a high number of pieces. Not exactly the technique that a jewelery maker uses - unless he produces cheap fashion jewelry.
Regards
Goldstein
The hollow pressing is a mechanical process with which objects made of smooth sheet metal can be produced in a high number of pieces. Not exactly the technique that a jewelery maker uses - unless he produces cheap fashion jewelry.
Regards
Goldstein
Re: Strange brooch
OK, thanks to all but mind my asking, what is hollow on this brooch?
Re: Strange brooch
@Oel
Unfortunately the brooch's provenience is not known. I told you all it is to
Unfortunately the brooch's provenience is not known. I told you all it is to
Re: Strange brooch
Hi -
The pattern is not worked out of the full material, but is hollow pressed (metal sheet) - see red arrows - front and back.
Regards
Goldstein
The pattern is not worked out of the full material, but is hollow pressed (metal sheet) - see red arrows - front and back.
Regards
Goldstein
Re: Strange brooch
Hi,
The only goldsmith – jeweler matching initials is
Abovich Yavno Zelmanovich
Gold and silverware shop, merchant, mentioned 1909.
In regard of marks I think we tend to idealize them (unless it`s obvious they are faked).
There are many examples of badly struck marks and simply referred to ``the assayer had a bad day`` (again, if everything else is OK).
Please reconsider when the marks were struck. I think they were struck randomly BEFORE riveting, and later care was not taken where to drill the holes (they could have been drilled with the brooch rotated to leave marks intact). But again, we seem to be more meticulous than silversmiths at the time. Duty was paid. Marks are not obliterated and why care where to drill holes; to make collectors happy in the future?
(I suppose the assumption holes being drilled before assaying is based on the fact left side of the rim is missing. But it`s a technical detail proving just the opposite, when drilling the hole the rim falls over the depression and has no support underneath).
Moreover, their businesses are not perfectly documented. The brooch was die stamped – pressed (as mentioned above). The die is profitable if many items are made, but it was already 20th century and more affordable jewelry was made. Guilloche and diamond setting was probably even done by another maker – they had workshops but they were merchants and traders (specifically mentioned for Abovich Yavno Zelmanovich). Or guilloche was attached later by somebody else who found fitting guilloche. We`ll never know.
In conclusion, I think the brooch is genuine, cannot be sure about the maker, though. And no proof guilloche was there from the very beginning or attached later.
The only goldsmith – jeweler matching initials is
Abovich Yavno Zelmanovich
Gold and silverware shop, merchant, mentioned 1909.
In regard of marks I think we tend to idealize them (unless it`s obvious they are faked).
There are many examples of badly struck marks and simply referred to ``the assayer had a bad day`` (again, if everything else is OK).
Please reconsider when the marks were struck. I think they were struck randomly BEFORE riveting, and later care was not taken where to drill the holes (they could have been drilled with the brooch rotated to leave marks intact). But again, we seem to be more meticulous than silversmiths at the time. Duty was paid. Marks are not obliterated and why care where to drill holes; to make collectors happy in the future?
(I suppose the assumption holes being drilled before assaying is based on the fact left side of the rim is missing. But it`s a technical detail proving just the opposite, when drilling the hole the rim falls over the depression and has no support underneath).
Moreover, their businesses are not perfectly documented. The brooch was die stamped – pressed (as mentioned above). The die is profitable if many items are made, but it was already 20th century and more affordable jewelry was made. Guilloche and diamond setting was probably even done by another maker – they had workshops but they were merchants and traders (specifically mentioned for Abovich Yavno Zelmanovich). Or guilloche was attached later by somebody else who found fitting guilloche. We`ll never know.
In conclusion, I think the brooch is genuine, cannot be sure about the maker, though. And no proof guilloche was there from the very beginning or attached later.
4. Абович Явно Зельманович
Владелец магазина золотых и серебряных изделий,
купец, упоминается в 1908 и 1909 годах. С.-Петербург.
Инициалы па клейме: ЯА, Я З А
Re: Strange brooch
Hi -
Finally, let's talk about the attachment needle. It does not look after the repair of a previously existing brochure because as it (unprofessionel, not in the middle and with tin solder) looks more after the work of a dilettante.
In my opinion this was never a brooch - but an application for any bigger silver part and was later "refined".
What disturbs me: the cheap, light hollow pressing in gilded silver, fitted with an elaborate enamelling and a diamond-studded monogram - to be fixed with a obliquely soldered needle. At this effort you would not expect silver gold-plated but pure gold. By the way: I do not believe that this are diamonds!
No one would mount diamonds in silver!
Many gross disagreements!
Regards
Goldstein
Finally, let's talk about the attachment needle. It does not look after the repair of a previously existing brochure because as it (unprofessionel, not in the middle and with tin solder) looks more after the work of a dilettante.
In my opinion this was never a brooch - but an application for any bigger silver part and was later "refined".
What disturbs me: the cheap, light hollow pressing in gilded silver, fitted with an elaborate enamelling and a diamond-studded monogram - to be fixed with a obliquely soldered needle. At this effort you would not expect silver gold-plated but pure gold. By the way: I do not believe that this are diamonds!
No one would mount diamonds in silver!
Many gross disagreements!
Regards
Goldstein
Re: Strange brooch
The hinge looks hard soldered. Safety catch (seldom seen before 1910 and hand made) was repaired i.e.fixed with lead - tin soft solder because hard soldering at 700 degrees C would damage enamel. This is the only way to repair broken catch on enameled jewelry.
If the hinge is hard soldered (no traces of lead - tin) then it was a brooch.
The rest has been elaborated.
If the hinge is hard soldered (no traces of lead - tin) then it was a brooch.
The rest has been elaborated.
Re: Strange brooch
Hi -
For comparison a contemporary (1908-17), Russian brooch with original needle as it was then common. The enamelled ribbon is also made of silver / gold-plated - the soldering points are also gold-plated.
A cheap, hollow pressed contemporary (2010) replica of a Scyth stag with a modern needle
How about the mounting of the "diamonds"? Also correct?
Regards
Goldstein
For comparison a contemporary (1908-17), Russian brooch with original needle as it was then common. The enamelled ribbon is also made of silver / gold-plated - the soldering points are also gold-plated.
A cheap, hollow pressed contemporary (2010) replica of a Scyth stag with a modern needle
How about the mounting of the "diamonds"? Also correct?
Regards
Goldstein
Re: Strange brooch
Hi -
have forgotten: the safety catch is not handmade - it was a massarticle you could order from your supplier for little money. Nobody had the time to build this things - they ordered it. The industrial age had already begun.....
Regards
Goldstein
have forgotten: the safety catch is not handmade - it was a massarticle you could order from your supplier for little money. Nobody had the time to build this things - they ordered it. The industrial age had already begun.....
Regards
Goldstein
Re: Strange brooch
Rose cut, few facets.Small, carats not counted even if bigger.Set here for decorative purposes. Otherwise nothing wrong with them. Often seen in old jewelry.How about the mounting of the "diamonds"? Also correct?
Re: Strange brooch
Hi Ag2012 -
.... all through remote diagnostics! The brooch flashes like a traffic light but you do not see anything unusual. Very disappointing!
Regards
Goldstein
.... all through remote diagnostics! The brooch flashes like a traffic light but you do not see anything unusual. Very disappointing!
Regards
Goldstein