Unknown Makers mark K.P. in St.P.?
Unknown Makers mark K.P. in St.P.?
So help needed in identifying makers mark K.P. in St.Petersburg (1899-1908,A.Romanov), please?
Re: Unknown Makers mark K.P. in St.P.?
Hi Atlas -
a blurry photo helps not much!
I see assayer Jakob Ljapunov 1899-1908, St. Petersburg!
The maker´s mark is known - the name unknown (source: PL, p.182)
Regards
Goldstein
a blurry photo helps not much!
I see assayer Jakob Ljapunov 1899-1908, St. Petersburg!
The maker´s mark is known - the name unknown (source: PL, p.182)
Regards
Goldstein
Re: Unknown Makers mark K.P. in St.P.?
Hello goldstein,
My apologies for the blurry photo and thank you for your correction. The makers mark is known and the maker is unknown. I`ll try be more specific in the future with my postings.
So the proper question should be ---->> any idea regarding the personality of the maker behind the makers mark K.P?
My apologies for the blurry photo and thank you for your correction. The makers mark is known and the maker is unknown. I`ll try be more specific in the future with my postings.
So the proper question should be ---->> any idea regarding the personality of the maker behind the makers mark K.P?
Re: Unknown Makers mark K.P. in St.P.?
Most likely the maker is Carl Rayonen (Карл Районен). I have many samples of his marks from 1890 to 1908.
Regards.
Regards.
Re: Unknown Makers mark K.P. in St.P.?
I also believe it is #1314/15 but his name is misspelled in Ivanov, "Rayonen" (as many other transliterated names) and the master's name should read Karl Reijonen. Please correct in your records.
Re: Unknown Makers mark K.P. in St.P.?
My humble thanks to you Ubaranda and Qrt.S.
(This dilemma has come across me several times.)
(This dilemma has come across me several times.)
Re: Unknown Makers mark K.P. in St.P.?
This photo came across me. Person in the photo is Mr. Karl Reijonen by name. It is taken in a studio in Helsinki ( Fabianinkatu 27 ). The year is 1896. From my point of view could very well the same man.
Re: Unknown Makers mark K.P. in St.P.?
Well, could be or not. Karl Reijonen is not an uncommon name in Finland. Are there any other proofs on the photo indicating him being the goldsmith in question?
Just for the records:
Unfortunately I have recognized quite a lot of misspelled or badly transliterated (not only) Finnish names in Ivanov.
An example of a bad transliteration is the very well known Fabergé master "Gabriel Niukkanen" born 1854 in Maavesi in Finland and died 1921 in Helsinki, mentioned in many books. He couldn't be found in any official records in Finland until it suddenly became clear that his name was actually Kaapro Nykänen and after that immediately identified. The reason for the misspelling is that the letter "y" in the Cyrillic alphabet is "u" and when the name was transliterated to Russian the letter Ю was used for Y i.e "НЮКАНЕН". When it was years later transliterated back to Latin letters "Ю" became "IU" and the result incorrectly NIUKKANEN (the name NIUKANEN with one K doesn't exist) but not the correct NYKÄNEN. His forname "Kaapro's" Swedish analog name is "Gabriel".
An other example is also Fabergé's master "Anders Johansson Nevalainen" (1858-1933) whose real name is Antti Juhanpoika Nevalainen. "Johansson/Juhanpoika" is a patronymic name meaning "John's son" and in its origin a forename that has became also a surname....and there are many more on list...!
Well OK, enough of this. It hasn't much to do with silver but it is good to know when you have a "unknown" master's name needing identification in front of you. The spelling/transliteration could be incorrect. Pay also attention to that Finland was a part of Sweden for 600 years to 1809. The official language in Finland was Swedish not Finnish. The change to Finnish happened in the late 19th century.
Just for the records:
Unfortunately I have recognized quite a lot of misspelled or badly transliterated (not only) Finnish names in Ivanov.
An example of a bad transliteration is the very well known Fabergé master "Gabriel Niukkanen" born 1854 in Maavesi in Finland and died 1921 in Helsinki, mentioned in many books. He couldn't be found in any official records in Finland until it suddenly became clear that his name was actually Kaapro Nykänen and after that immediately identified. The reason for the misspelling is that the letter "y" in the Cyrillic alphabet is "u" and when the name was transliterated to Russian the letter Ю was used for Y i.e "НЮКАНЕН". When it was years later transliterated back to Latin letters "Ю" became "IU" and the result incorrectly NIUKKANEN (the name NIUKANEN with one K doesn't exist) but not the correct NYKÄNEN. His forname "Kaapro's" Swedish analog name is "Gabriel".
An other example is also Fabergé's master "Anders Johansson Nevalainen" (1858-1933) whose real name is Antti Juhanpoika Nevalainen. "Johansson/Juhanpoika" is a patronymic name meaning "John's son" and in its origin a forename that has became also a surname....and there are many more on list...!
Well OK, enough of this. It hasn't much to do with silver but it is good to know when you have a "unknown" master's name needing identification in front of you. The spelling/transliteration could be incorrect. Pay also attention to that Finland was a part of Sweden for 600 years to 1809. The official language in Finland was Swedish not Finnish. The change to Finnish happened in the late 19th century.