help with German hallmark please

[patagere]

Can anyone help with this hallmark on a pepperette?

[patagere]

Hello,
I posted an item here that I purchased a few days ago because I couldn't identify the mark. http://925-1000.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=49409

Since there were no responses, I assume no one else could identify the mark either. The dealer says its c 1900 from Franz Bahner, but the mark looks different to me. There's also no crown & sword, and he says not all silversmiths complied with the requirement.

I'm familiar with British silver, but know very little about German silver.

Is what he said about the country marks true?
Is there any obvious way I could distinquish a modern from an antique piece?
The dogs were very expensive, but I adore them -- so can't decide if I want to send them back or not,.
Appreciate any advice.

[SteveDWollongong]

Hi Patagere,

I agree with your assumption re the ability to positively identify the marks, hence the lack of immediate response. We have some forum members who specialise in German silver and so if they haven't chimed in yet, it's a pretty good indication that a positive Id may not be possible.

From my perspective the mark on your fantastic pepperettes does not look like Franz Bahners makers mark but the crown from the crown & crescent (as in moon...it isn't a sword) official German guarantee for solid silver. Unlike British silver where the required guarantee marks, etc were punched by an authorised official, the crescent and crown were punched by the maker. This means that every maker had their own version of the marks. So what looks to me to be the crown mark, I think resembles one used by Bahner so this could be what the seller based their attribution on.

Wait and see what others have to say.

As far as knowing if they are old or not, it is difficult through photos. Are you able to take a close up of the interior and embed in a reply to this post. They appear to be identical and look to be cast? Can you confirm? The exteriors looks to be in superb condition which is more likely to be the case if they are cast and heavy weight...but is the condition too good? Is there wear and patina that you would expect with 100 year old pepperettes?


Cheers,
Steve

[patagere]

Hi Steve
Thank you for your response. Here's a picture of the inside (as best I can!)

I would say there is a tiny bit of wear (scratches on the bottom, a few dark spots, but for the most part they look like they were used for display.
So you are saying that the mark would be a crown... so no actual maker's mark?
Yes,they are identical, so I would say they are cast. They are also rather heavy,.
Thanks again
Pat

[silverfan]

I cannot identify neither a crown nor a maker's mark of Bahner and I don't think that Bahner made such dogs; they were specialized in flatware.
Regards silverfan

[patagere]

Do you know of anyone who made such novelty items?

[AG2012]

Hi,
We can only speculate about the country of origin and their age.Very popular dog salt/pepper shakers.They can be Italian,too (lozenge mark was often omitted).Unless an identical fully marked dog emerges their origin will remain a mystery.

Regards