A strange phenomenon.....

[Goldstein]

Hi all -

On the perpetual search for interesting objects, I have come across a strange phenomenon:
Gustav Klingert is famous for his various unusual designs on spoons and cigarette cases in combination with enamel.
Here is one of his well-known pattern:




Here is an usual cigarette case with the typical design and enamel colours - all just as correct as it should be. But when you open it is the inside not just plain as usual - but in the same pattern as the above shown spoon. Why this effort?
Forgiveness of love in my eyes - because the pattern is usually hidden by the cigarettes when opening.
Was any remaining material from the spoon production consumed?
Nice but something superfluous in my eyes.
Maybe someone has an answer/explanation for me.



Regards
Goldstein

[AG2012]

Hi,
The spoon is champlevé, but difficult to tell which technique was used to create cells (carved or die struck).
They might have applied the same die to a sheet of silver and used it for the inside of the tobacco case and then made cells of twisted wire for cloisonné on the outside.
Anyway, a superb craftsmanship as expected.
Regards

[Qrt.S]

Mind my asking but are you absolutely sure that the maker is Gustaf Klingert? The problem here seems to be the maker's mark. It shows clearly G.K (note the dot and font) on the spoon and GK without a dot on the case (note the font and missing dot, compare with P#2881). It is known that Klingert marks were Cyrillic КЛИНГАРТ, ГК and Latin KLINGERT and more seldom used GK. (note the font and dot and its location!). However, there was another master in Moscow about the same time by the name of Semen Kasakov (P#2881) and he marked Cyrillic CK (without a dot!), however, the Cyrillic "C" looks very much like a Latin G. Kasaskov is a skilled enameler but not as famous as Klingert. Kasakov's work are not so seldom attributed wrongly to to Klingert. I'm not asserting anything, just wondering a lot....like Hamlet: "Could be or not be" :-)))

[Goldstein]

Hi AG2012 -

I suspect that the surface was cast (metal cast) and then the "small cells" processed in champlevé technik. There exist another famous pattern from Klingert (honeycomb) in the same technik. On some damaged cigarette cases (the enamel was splintered by a fall to the ground) I could clearly see the structure of the "small cells". See the case with the red arrow . A huge amount of work and a high computing performance so that the pattern is round about the same is necessary!




Hi Qrt.S -

All the Klingert silver/enamel I own or have seen has more or less little different marks. The most important distinguishing feature is apart from correct marks much more the enamel colors, the pattern and the exceptional quality in detail. These features could maybe only be achieved at the greatest expense by the counterfeiters - but then the bill does not work.
Here you see the classic Klingert style:




Of course it is up to everyone to decide whether he has/see a fake or an original one - always assuming the necessary experience.
As already said: counterfeiters make cheap and sell expensive - this is undisputed not the case here. Today, even with the most modern means, the production would cost a multiple of the sales proceeds.
Unfortunately, we have once again abandoned the actual topic.
My question was: why this pattern inside the cigarette case? A leftover from production? A special donation/present? A stupid fake?

Regards
Goldstein

[Qrt.S]

OK, so be it.
About the inside pattern. As you said, maybe it is a "left over" sheet from spoon production. They just made one sheet too much.... Why spoil it? Use it in a cigarette case. Its absolutely not a fake.

[Goldstein]

Hi -

found a saliere from Klingert - same pattern.





Regards
Goldstein

[Goldstein]

Hi -
another "honeycomb"-pattern from Klingert. Notice the mark - it is not always GK as the fakers would like to show us....





Regards
Goldstein

[Goldstein]

Hi -
found another saliere, obvious made by Kligert - but mysteriously / confusing/contradictory marked.
Height, diameter, weight - 3,3 cm x 4,5 cm x 25,8 g
Any explanation?





Regards
Goldstein

[oel]

Hi Goldstein,

Made in Germany hence the crescent moon and crown and minimum numeral fineness mark. Made perhaps by Gebrüder Deyhle, Schwabisch Gmund, exported to Russia hence the Russian import mark. I can imagine the flower pattern was not only used by Klingert.

See:
http://www.925-1000.com/forum/viewtopic ... le#p127999

Peter.

[Goldstein]

Hi -
something here is very wrong! Fake marks overkill!

Regards
Goldstein

[dragonflywink]

This appears to be the same stamped pattern on a spoon from Danish maker Peter Hertz, the date is worn, might be 1888, 1899 or 1900...





~Cheryl

[Goldstein]

Hi -

here the newest find:




All a little bit strange...

Regards
Goldstein

[Goldstein]

Hi -

one more (tea caddy)....





Regards
Goldstein