Pair of cups from St. Petersburg I believe

[925John]

Thank you for ID these cup marks.

John

[Goldstein]

Hi 925John -

It is not C45 but CЧ5!



Regards
Goldstein

[AG2012]

Hi,
Soviet (USSR) Leningrad before 1965.
Try to take sharper image of the mark in the middle to help identifying the firm in Leningrad.
Regards

[AG2012]

Goldstein has identified the maker CЧ5.
It`s a factory in Veliky Ustyug.Still in business:
http://www.sevchern.ru/
Regards

[Qrt.S]

The factory's name "Фабрика Северная Чернь" means "Factory Northern Caucasus". The cups are made exactly in 1965. The number 5 in the mark tells us that. The Greek alpha in the hallmark stands for "Leningrad's inspectorate" (Don't ask me why Leningrad!).

By the way:
I have a modest wish for everyone asking questions here regarding object's and their marks. Please, wash, clean, especially the marks, and polish the object in question before taking the pictures! I feel really bad looking at "dirty" cups like the ones here and objects in many other threads. Silver shall shine like the full moon in August!

I hope it is not too much to ask for.
Thank you in advance

[Qrt.S]

Sorry, sorry, I was disturbed, the name of the factory is of course "Northern BLACK"

[AG2012]

Чернь is a synonym for ниелло (niello). Basic definition of the word is black.
Artel was founded in 1933, changed the name to factory in 1961.
Regards

[Qrt.S]

@AG2012
Thanks, didn't know that. However, mind my asking: "Artel" founded in 1933"??? What artel might that be, never heard of it and I am quite familiar with the former artels' backgrounds and history? The artels' story ended not later than in 1917, so?

[AG2012]

В 1933 году в Великом Устюге М. П. Чирковым основывается артель «Северная чернь».

In 1933, in Veliki Ustyug, M.P. Chirkov founded the "Severnaya Chern" artel.

In 1930s the soviet government extended the term Артель even to peasant Kolhoz associations (what an irony, like they really volunteered when joining).
сельскохозяйственные артели (agricultural artels).

«Северная чернь» won silver medal at Paris World exhibition 1937.

[Qrt.S]

AG2012
OK, thanks, but "artel" and "ARTEL"......this has, anyway, nothing to do do with the original Russian artels.

[AG2012]

Right, nothing to do with Imperial era artels, just loosely applied term for ``free association of professionals`` dating back to middle ages, and certainly it was not a free association after the revolution.
Similar to die Gilde (Kaufleute).

[925John]

Thank you for the replies.

For a better look at the marks, you can right click the picture, and select open in new browser, to see full size.

[Dad]

The factory's name "Фабрика Северная Чернь" means "Factory Northern Caucasus". The cups are made exactly in 1965. The number 5 in the mark tells us that. The Greek alpha in the hallmark stands for "Leningrad's inspectorate" (Don't ask me why Leningrad.
Thank you in advance

No no no !!! )))

1955 !! Artel “Severnaja Chern”

After 1958 hallmarks were changed

[Qrt.S]

@Dad
Please read all inputs. I made a mistake but I corrected it. See below

Sorry, sorry, I was disturbed, the name of the factory is of course "Northern BLACK"

According to Troepolskaja #20095 on page 638 and what Goldstein also wrote the year is 1965. What is the source for the year 1955? By the way, this СЧ5 is not a hallmark it is a maker's mark. A hallmark is the official punch like the kokoshniks, five star etc...

[AG2012]

Hello again,
I suppose Dad was referring to Soviet mark star - sickle - hammer ( КЛЕЙМА ЗВЕЗДА СЕРП И МОЛОТ) introduced in 1958.
Beakers shown here have older mark (worker`s head and hammer and Greek letter).
Meaning, beakers had to be made before 1958.
Regards

[Qrt.S]

Hmmm, quite right AG 2012. That means that there is an error in Troepolskaja. On page 638 #20089 you can read that "Severnaya Chern" use the punch СЧ 1933-1940. The next punch it used is СЧ0 in 1960......СЧ8 for 1968. There are no marks mentioned between 1941-1959. But then again you have the worker's head hallmark with a sledgehammer on the cups. It was used 1927-1958. Something is not in place here...is it really СЧ5 or something else?

[Dad]

Qrt.S,

You live many years. I think you saw very much. ))
Each source consists of 2 parts:
1) autor self researches
2) borrowed from earlier sources.

There are earlier data:





But the most important:

"The worker in a cap with the hammer" was only before 1958.

[Qrt.S]

@Dad
Well, I already stated that something is not in place here. We have an "artel" СЧ0 for 1960 and СЧ8 for 1968. In addition, a "fabrika" СЧ1-СЧ7 for 1961-1967. We also have СЧ (only two characters!) for 1933-1940. But where from is 1955? Undoubtedly the worker's head was used 1927->13.7.1959, so? What should be corrected on the lists?

Kindly tell me what is the source for your extract?

[Goldstein]

Hi -

here the "quality" niello from the firm still known until today...and a updated punch...






Regards
Goldstein