John Wren II?

[Aguest]

Something is a little different about this sugar sifter, the piercings seem more like Mote Spoon piercings, it is uncommonly light and delicate, and the bright-cut pattern on the handle is a bit unusual as well ::: After searching for the maker, I wonder if this is John Wren II instead of Thomas Wallis or another "TW" candidate from London ::: I did find a Mote Spoon attributed to John Wren II, so maybe this adds evidence to the case ::: However, the real test is an analysis of the maker's mark, and hopefully this hallmark can be distinguished from all the other TW hallmarks :::

The "incuse head" of the King hallmark would make this assayed in 1784 or 1785, and here is what I have found out according to Grimwade:

"Wren entered his mark as a spoon maker from 95 Bishopsgate Street on 27th February 1777.
He continued to be assessed to Land Tax on property in Bishopsgate until 1786. The property was empty in 1787.
His burial aged 41 years was registered at St Botolph, Aldersgate in 1786..
The Will of John Wren, late silversmith of St Botolph without Bishopsgate parish, was granted probate on 13th June 1786."





I have been confused with the John Wren II hallmark when compared with the other similar hallmarks, it is very difficult for me to figure this out, and also I have noticed a few people who claim to be selling "John Wren II" silver spoons, but the dates of assay on the spoons are after 1786, when it appears that John Wren II was buried, according to Grimwade :::

[Aguest]

::: Here is the hallmark, this is the most in-focus pic I could manage :::

[silvermakersmarks]

Thomas Wallis II - it's definitely a "T" rather than a "J".

I'm not sure where the original mistaken attribution of this mark to Wren happened but I suspect it started in one of Jackson's original editions and was propagated by Wyler in his "Book of Old Silver" (although I may be doing him a mis-service as I no longer have his book having thrown it out in disgust).

Phil

[Aguest]

I still am not certain I have ever seen a true John Wren II hallmark, and is it true John Wren II died in 1786? It seems as if a few pieces have been mis-attributed to John Wren II based on that bit of mis-information :::

At least I know this hallmark is Thomas Wallis II, I really did think it was Thomas Wallis II at first, but then I got into reading all this information about John Wren II, and I quickly became confused :::