Sheffield mark - Dragon in a romper?

[WeirFarm]

Hello,

I have a pair of silver-plated candlesticks that have a mark I do not recognize. The items are marked Sheffield, and "plated on copper" but there is a poorly formed dragon mark that frankly looks like it is wearing shorts and a t-shirt (or a romper). Does anyone know what this mark is?

https://imgur.com/a/tBSiqW8

[dognose]

Hi,

Welcome to the Forum.

Please embed your images.

Trev.

[Traintime]

If we don't get an embedded photo, I'll just note this for future reference. The mark was a left-facing gryphon/griffon posed on a torse. It had a vague similarity to a known American plater's mark (1 of 3 parts). [If it is a variant, then hopefully the photo will have been embedded.] It may be an example of how the word mark Sheffield was commonly abused....just a few days ago, I came across a piece from one of the known American companies where the Sheffield mark had been professionally destroyed by x-outs or zig-zags with an engraving tool...probably a result of these firms being forced into compliance (well covered in other threads).

[WeirFarm]

Here is the embedded image (hopefully)



Thank you for your help. Sterling silver pre-1820 is more my specialty. I did think that Sheffield was being used to denote that it was plate, or that maybe it was from a factory in that area, like a city hallmark. I did not think of an American company using that term though. What is the company you are thinking of?

I am working at a historic property where the candlesticks most likely would have been purchased in the 1880s. However, there have been multiple generations living here so they could have been purchased later or inherited from earlier. The family is from New England but they were wealthy so they did travel to Europe (where they went on a shopping spree, and had a home in New York City. You might find this interesting that J. Alden Weir, the original owner, was friends with Louis Comfort Tiffany.

[dognose]

Embedded image:


SHEFFIELD/PLATED/ON/COPPER

Trev.

[Traintime]

As stated, it is only a similarity of one mark which might suggest a possible variant..too early for any conclusions...but look at Barbour Silver Co. marks row 2, mark one for a less "chicken legged" version: https://www.925-1000.com/silverplate_B.html

There could be others to boot as there are a number of threads concerning gryphon marks...the torse is the added feature.

[Traintime]

I searched every entry for Griffin, Griffon, and Gryphon and got nothing. However, Griffin Silver Plate Co. is an oddity...that is, they started in Chicago before moving to Elgin: https://books.google.com/books?id=5yw5A ... is&f=false

I have to wonder what they were doing before the coffin fixtures business at the new plant?

[Traintime]

The three incorporators are all in the Griffon family, however John M. Blackburn (formerly with Meriden companies) is a key figure: https://books.google.com/books?id=Msk4A ... go&f=false

So far, no info. on early work or marks prior to the re-organization as Elgin.

[Traintime]

Sorry, that's "Griffin family".

[Traintime]

To dispense with Elgin Silver Plate Co., it lasts until absorption in 1920's and is strictly engaged in coffin related hardwares: https://www.elginhistory.com/dgb/ch25.htm

The Griffin family is not mentioned after the Chicago start, but Samuel Barbour has earlier Chicago origins. May be just chasing the tail of the griffin, but the connections to Blackburn, the Meriden companies, and Barbour Silver might hold more than we see. Barbour is mainly nickel silver, so copper seems out of place. Generally, later British platers use the firm's intials for their primary marks with psuedos as an added feature.

[Traintime]

Tracking Francis O. Griffin, we find Chicago S.P. Co. engaged in "casket trimmings" in 1891, which seems to wipe out any possiblity for this mark being associated: https://books.google.com/books?id=qo8uU ... te&f=false

[WeirFarm]

Tracking Francis O. Griffin, we find Chicago S.P. Co. engaged in "casket trimmings" in 1891, which seems to wipe out any possiblity for this mark being associated: https://books.google.com/books?id=qo8uU ... te&f=false

So would it be safe to call it American-made but using the Sheffield name because of the process, rather than the place of origin? I am putting together a guide for our park rangers concerning each object should anyone from the public ask about any of the objects in the house during the tours. Any information I could give them would be helpful.

Thanks again for all of your sleuthing! I wrote my MA thesis on British sterling silver in the 18th century so I was spoiled by all of the mandatory standardized assay marks.

[Traintime]

Have not found any specific entry for a "Plated On Copper" mark, but you my find Cheryl's comments here interesting as it relates to International Silver and a component firm: viewtopic.php?f=18&t=36457&p=96627&hili ... per#p96627

[Traintime]

The abuse issue: viewtopic.php?f=38&t=36151&p=171049&hil ... an#p171049

One of many samples: viewtopic.php?f=18&t=49136&p=150465&hil ... an#p150465

An identifiable abuser: viewtopic.php?f=18&t=51590&p=160326&hil ... an#p160326

[Traintime]

And descriptive problems went further afield: viewtopic.php?f=38&t=17535&p=164224&hil ... ld#p164224

[Traintime]

To try to answer your question..In short, the possibilities do not carry as much weight as the probabilities. It is likely made for the American trade with a highly deceptive label and a mark pointing toward onshore domestic production. At this point the mark is unique until another surfaces.

[WeirFarm]

Thank you very much for your insight!

[Traintime]

Solved!...??? Hardy & Hayes of Pittsburgh: https://www.sterlingflatwarefashions.co ... /SSH2.html

[Traintime]

Additional check...a jeweler's box (ring?) on Worthpoint shows the gryphon twice above the H&H name. It might also be at the bottom of some advertising, but that big newspaper site has the view obscurred. It would seem to be the firm's own trade mark. They were purchased by Orr's Jewelers upon the closing. The downtown location is gone.

[Traintime]

[Trev]....We might call this "Borrowed" for clipping as you will: