JW over JW Maker's Mark

SilverSurfer · Post by **SilverSurfer** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 3:23 pm

I recently received some fiddle pattern sugar tongs (bows) possessing only a maker's mark, JW over JW on a rectangular field. There are no hallmarks at all on this piece. The seller identified this as by James & Josiah Williams of Bristol, circa 1865. I see a mark entered for them in nearby Exeter, c.1866, but it is a more script-like JW over JW with an ampersand in the middle, and on a four leaf clover-like field. Here are the two marks, the mystery mark to the left, the known Exeter mark to the right:

Might anyone have documentation on the left hand mark? Given the lack of hallmarks, might this indeed be a provincial duty dodger? TIA for any info!

SS

Post by **Granmaa** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 5:35 pm

Hi SS,

Both these marks are for James and Josiah Williams: the left one was entered in 1854 after Robert Williams, presumably, died leaving his two sons to carry on the business. The mark on the right is their later mark; I have a spoon with this mark from 1859, but I'm not sure when it was first used
Did you get that picture from Jackson's? I've never seen any version of their mark quite like this, it's usually much neater and in plain capitals.

Miles

Post by **admin** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 6:24 pm

There's a nice clear image of the quatrefoil Williams mark here at ->
http://www.925-1000.com/dlExeter.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Regards, Tom

SilverSurfer · Post by **SilverSurfer** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 7:15 pm

Did you get that picture from Jackson's? I've never seen any version of their mark quite like this, it's usually much neater and in plain capitals.

Yes, indeedy, snitched it from p.299 in Jackson's III.

There's a nice clear image of the quatrefoil Williams mark here at ->
http://www.925-1000.com/dlExeter.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Yes, the actual mark is much better formed than the text reproduction, wonder what the story is.

Thanks, Tom and Miles, for your responses. Might you have any opinions as to why no hallmarks, maker's mark only???

SS

Post by **Granmaa** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 8:11 pm

It seems very strange; J&J Williams were strong supporters of the Exeter assay office, submitting 60% of the total quantity marked in Exeter in 1865.

Is it possible that the marks have worn away?

Miles

SilverSurfer · Post by **SilverSurfer** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 9:53 pm

Is it possible that the marks have worn away?

Thank you again for your response, Miles. No, this piece is in excellent condition with very little wear. The makers' mark is deeply struck and has the least bit of rubbing on the high points, the field shows the original matte finish. Any other marks, even if lightly struck, would be in evidence, IMO. The only other mark is the engraved "W" or "M" on the outside of the bow. Curiously, the monogram has the little tic marks that I more link to engraving done sixty years earlier. It is not expertly done, the curves that should be smooth show some kinks and directional changes. There is no other engraving, the piece is very plain. Maybe a Williams personal piece?

SS

Post by **Granmaa** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 9:39 am

Well, look what I found at a car-boot sale this morning: fiddle pattern tongs marked 1859 like my spoon but with the other version of the maker's mark. Perhaps these marks were used indiscriminately.

Miles

SilverSurfer · Post by **SilverSurfer** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 12:05 pm

Nice find, Miles. Seems pretty well established that the undocumented mark is that of the Williams brothers. I note that your tongs have what appears to be a tally mark below the makers' mark, indicating that the business had some size to it. That makes me even more curious as to why my tongs have no hallmarks. Personal piece? Pilfered by a worker? One would suspect that a business of size would not provoke the law by producing duty dodgers. Or was the spirit of William Jamieson more prevalent then I thought? Thanks once more for you info, Miles!

SS

SilverSurfer · Post by **SilverSurfer** » Wed Apr 09, 2008 10:59 pm

Just an update, I recently received three fiddle pattern serving spoons, about 18 cm long and 50 g in weight, all marked JW&JW on the quatrefoil field, two date marked I (1865-66) and one K (1866-67), and all three with the same tally mark, 1. The point of interest is that the later spoon has a different maker's stamp. Though of the same form, it is about 20% smaller in the linear dimension, approx. 4 mm measured diagonally as compared to about 5 mm for the marks on the earlier spoons.

SS