Help with date - Birmingham sterling salt spoon

vicmollo · Post by **vicmollo** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 9:35 pm

Hi,
I have a pair of tiny ( 2 3/8" long) salt spoons I'm trying to authenticate and date. They're stamped sterling and have hallmarks - is that legit, to have both? No maker's mark, but I understand for small things that is not unusual. Tiny marks, I can make out the anchor and the lion passant but not the middle one, which I'm assuming is date letter. Could anyone please help me out here, the old eyesight ain't what it used to be. Have taken lots of pictures but below is best I can do. Thanks for any help.

Waylander · Post by **Waylander** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 8:37 am

Unusual marks. "Sterling" would usually indicate an American origin, although the marks do not seem to be those of Gorham (wrong order). At the same time, I would expect to see a maker's mark - if you can fit "Sterling" on, you can fit your maker's mark.

Best guess? English Sterling, assayed in Birmingham, and designed for export to the US - hence no maker (to allow for the US importer to put their own on). Would need a better photo of the date letter to determine a date - would probably post date 1890.

Waylander

vicmollo · Post by **vicmollo** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 12:09 pm

Thanks, Waylander. Electron microscope, anybody?

Waylander · Post by **Waylander** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 7:54 am

Hmmm, I am beginning to doubt myself on this one. Two reasons:]

1) No evidence of a date letter that even looks remotely like the one in question

2) Unusual to have the Date Letter between the Town Mark and the Lion Passant. Should go in Order - Sterling / Town / Date

May be pseudo marks used to give the impression the piece was English. That would suggest a US origin. *sigh* Its time lie this I wish I had the piece before me; a visual inspection cant be beaten.

Waylander

vicmollo · Post by **vicmollo** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 10:39 am

I saw the lion and anchor pseudo marks online yesterday for some other American maker besides Gorham (wish I could remember which one <g>).
Looking at some of my other stuff (including one CS&FS spoon which I hadn't been able to ID till I saw your reply to nwarhurst!), you're right, date always at end.
So I guess I should move this out of the British forum. I'm in Canada so that's another possibilty - not as much documentation around for Canadian silver (don't scream, anyone - would love to hear of good books or websites).
Thanks for all your help and will post if I find out anything more.

Post by **dragonflywink** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 11:30 am

Can't quite make out the center mark, but if it's an "E" in a Maple leaf, the maker would be P.W.Ellis & Co. of Toronto, Ontario; founded in 1877, taken over by Birks in 1928.

Cheryl ;o)

vicmollo · Post by **vicmollo** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 10:23 pm

Yup! Found it at library today (in Rainwater's Ency. of American Silver Mfgr's, which also has quite a few Canadian makers), I feel like Sherlock Holmes, but they said J.E. Ellis & Co., Toronto, pre P.W. Ellis, must be same mark. Damned lions are everywhere, also in world silver marks book I also looked at, so not just British, which I always assumed. Live and learn. Thanks, Cheryl