russia suger box

[Johny]

Maybe more info about the producer

[AG2012]

Hi,
The assayer AM Alexander Mor in St Petersburg.
There were several makers at the time whose initials ended in Latin S.
Difficult to decipher.
Regards

[Johny]

This is not M.S?

[AG2012]

If M.S in this form of the mark,then it matches Mathias Skyytianen who was born in Finland and worked in St Petersburg at the time.

[Johny]

Thank you for your quick reply

[AG2012]

This info is from Skurlov list of St Petersburg makers;family name is Skit,obviously shortened form of silversmith`s Finnish name.
Born in Finland 1820, died 1866,came to St Petersburg to learn in 1843,undermaster 1850.His widow continued his workshop.The mark dates before 1868.Reference numbers of his marks in PL book.

СКИТТ Матиас (р. 1820 г. в Финляндии, ум. в 1866 г.), в 1839 г. приехал учиться в СПб, в 1843 г. подмастерье, в 1850 г. СДМ. Дело продолжала его вдова. Клеймо встречается до 1868 г. Постникова—Лосева: клейма №№ 1801–1803.

[Qrt.S]

For the records:
Transliterated names always cause problems. Since I am a Finn I take the liberty to inform his correct Finnish name. Originally it was Mathias Skyytinen but he changed it to Skytt when he came to St.Petersburg in 1839. He became journeyman in 1843. He was born in Parikkala in eastern Finland 13.7.1820, became master in 1850, and died 23.5.1866. His widow Albertina Holmqvist continued the business to 1868.

An interesting thing here is the assayer, Mor or Mitin? Different sources give different info. Mor 1831-1852 and Mitin 1852-1877, another source mentions that Mor would have assayed 1852-1876. Anyway there are two different AM marks registered 1852-1876. Does anybody know what is the case. I would appreciate the correct years.
Thank you in advance.

[Ubaranda]

An interesting thing here is the assayer, Mor or Mitin? Different sources give different info. Mor 1831-1852 and Mitin 1852-1877, another source mentions that Mor would have assayed 1852-1876. Anyway there are two different AM marks registered 1852-1876. Does anybody know what is the case. I would appreciate the correct years.
Thank you in advance.

Qrt.S, this is not the first time you ask about this, but you stubbornly do not hear the answers. How else to explain to you? See here:
viewtopic.php?f=46&t=30311
viewtopic.php?f=46&t=52948

[Qrt.S]

@Ubaranda
Yes I know, but not either the last time for the simple reason that Dad states in his message that Mitin assayed 1841-1848 and Mor 1850-1866. How do you explain that I can show two different sootmarks of Mitin from 1852-1877 and 1852-1876. In addition I can show a sootmark from Mor from 1831.
In the old message Dad is requesting AM- marks after 1868. I have two different AM-soot marks 1869-1877. Unfortunately I am unable to show them for the moment. I have no scanner here but I'll try to do it later some other time. So the question remains, When did Mitin and More assay? This case is not solved yet! Please reread the old links. Yes I know I'm stubborn and not satisfied until I have a correct answer based on facts.

[Ubaranda]

Hi Qrt.S!
I never saw the "AM" original assay marks before 1851 and after 1865. It is very interesting to look at your scans.
Thanks in advance.
Regards.

[Goldstein]

The usual cheap excuses when it comes to putting facts on the table. Either there are copy right problems or the scanner is not there or does not work, ect .. Even the cheapest phones today have a powerful camera ..... what's the problem?

[Qrt.S]

@Goldstein
A most stupid comment, yes I have a phone, but since you are so eager to always blame me, neither the book nor the scanner is here where I am. Got it!

[Goldstein]

Grandmother always said: "a kicked worm writhes ..."

[Qrt.S]

Here are the AM-soot marks I promised to show you. Back to my question, who is it, Mitin or Mor/Moor???

[Qrt.S]

This Mitin/Moor etc. discussion is a complete mess and has been going on here in several threads during the past years with a poor result (read nothing). Use the search function and you will easily find them. Anyway, the below list is what I have managed to collect from the old threads. I would be very happy to see your comments, corrections, amendments...whatever. Feel free to respond and correct. As for me, I'm confused and cannot give you any guarantees that the list is correct. It contains collected information only. It would be nice if we manage to settle this case at least to some extent if not for all.

• Jaschinov 1795/97-1826

• Mitin 1831-1854

• Moor 1831-1877

• Karpinskij 1823-1848

• Tverskoij 1837-1851

• Kaminskij 1831-1837

All active in StP. Please also note that there were other assayers working in StP about the same time, but let us not involve them into this chaos.
BTW, while doing this I happen to stumble into an assayer in StP with the initials ДК, active around 1831-32. Who is he????

[Ubaranda]

Hi Qrt.S!
Do you have any photos of the mark Д.К 1831 or Д.К 1832? I am sure that this is a badly punched mark Л.К of Leonty Kaminsky.

[Qrt.S]

@Ubaranda
Unfortunately I don't have a photo only a soot mark. The mark is in a book. However, more likely AK, but ??? Does these soot marks do?

[Mart]

For more than 10 years, forum participants have been trying to explain to you not the most difficult question with the brand "AM" and there is no result. You have been told many times that Mitin died in 1848 and that during the time when he worked, the products were branded as the head of the assay office of the D Tverskoy:"DT". This does not convince you in any way and you write again: "Mitin 1931-1854"
You have been told many times when Al. Morе was working, but you write again that he put his brands 46 years in a row and show funny pictures that have nothing to do with real brands.
It turns out that it will take several decades to tell about the 6 probirers of St. Petersburg. This requires a very young and brave forum participant.
One more time. The actual brands of Alexander More "AM": 1851-1866. It's very easy to remember and forget about Mitin.