Need Help ID these interesting hallmarks - Probably made from Buda in year 1818

[BP1051]

Hi,
I am new to this forum and found a lots of useful information for my newly bought pieces of old silver cutleres from Budapest. But here are some marks need help. They are all from one spoon as below imags showing. I could only recognize a Hungarian (be more specific, Buda) hallmark for year 1818, 13 loth (a three castle on top of 13). Above the Hungarian (Buda) hallmark there is a mark "N", on the right side of the hallmark there is "I G" inside a shield which I don't knwo what exactly it means. On the right-down there supposes a silversmith mark "R B", and then on the left-down there is something inside pentagon sharp which I almost certian it's not a Diana head.

Any help appreciated!

[AG2012]

Hi,
It is Bratislava,Slovakia 1818 mark. (Pressburg was its German name).
Maker`s mark in the shield is unknown to me.
The rest are newer marks. E.g. Kingdom of Yugoslavia since 1933 had cockerel mark of this form, but I cannot recognize what`s inside.
Regards

[BP1051]

Hi AG2012,

Thanks for redirecting me to Bratislava, I found a Bratislava hallmark from viewtopic.php?f=24&t=44870&p=130154&hil ... ks#p130154, but it looks slightly different than it shows on my pic, be more specific, my pic shows a 13 on top of a T and both inside a circle. But you could be right, maybe because of different years?

I thought it was from Buda becuase I was told the Buda hall marks have three towers on top, other than Pest has only one tower back to that time periods. But I have to say that so far I haven't found one single clear mark showing what exactly the Buda mark looks like, what a pity!

Thank you again and I hope I may find more info next time if I viisted that shop again see how much that owner knows.

BR,
BP1051

[AG2012]

Your spoon is 1818, excatly the same mark is depicted in Tardy under Pressburg for 1818.
Regards

[huszas76]

The spoon made at Pozsony, 1818. The yearletter also confirm that. In Buda silvesmith guils used only a couple of yearletters from A-G, never N.
Tha maker is Johannes Gerick, became master at 1812, he was the master of guild in 1828-29. Shortly after that date he died.
(Can I save the pictures of the hallmarks for the book that I'm writing right now?)
Best regards!
Krisztián

[huszas76]

Dear AG2012.
I disagree with you, I don't recognize Yugoslavian hallmark, in my opinion the smallest marks ar Diana head, 750 fineness.
Maybe the another small one is for a retailer.
Best regards!
Krisztián

[AG2012]

.750 Diana is confusing because they had the option to put .800 Diana mark for 13 loth = 812/1000.
Czech bee transitional mark for ancient silver has different pentagon shape (one side is longer and convex).
On the other hand, generally speaking, later marks are often arbitrary and misleading; it could be .750 Diana after all.
Regards

[BP1051]

Hi Krisztián,

Thanks a lot about the yearletters of Buda guils, yes, that makes sense!

And I am happy if my pics useful for your new book!

Thanks agian,

The spoon made at Pozsony, 1818. The yearletter also confirm that. In Buda silvesmith guils used only a couple of yearletters from A-G, never N.
Tha maker is Johannes Gerick, became master at 1812, he was the master of guild in 1828-29. Shortly after that date he died.
(Can I save the pictures of the hallmarks for the book that I'm writing right now?)
Best regards!
Krisztián

[BP1051]

Hi AG2012 / Krisztián,

You are right! After I used more powerful magnifer it's more certain that a Diana head with P right beside her nose, referring to below pics (from two different spoons.

So it seems like these spoons (I have total six of them) were reassessed (?) at Budapest during Austrian-Hungarian Empire period. I also rechecked each of them and found no evidences for repairing so the smaller mark "R B" from a retailer at that time sounds reasonable.

Thanks a lot!

.750 Diana is confusing because they had the option to put .800 Diana mark for 13 loth = 812/1000.
Czech bee transitional mark for ancient silver has different pentagon shape (one side is longer and convex).
On the other hand, generally speaking, later marks are often arbitrary and misleading; it could be .750 Diana after all.
Regards