Age of a silvesmith

[amena]

Hi everyone
In the topic "Unknown maker from Riga" Ubaranda says
In 1891 he was only 17 years old ..., meaning he was too young to make those spoons.
I share his opinion, which reminded me of a nagging tought that I have had for some time.
This chalice is attributed to the most famous silversmith of my town (18 century).

It's very simple, actually, but, according to the date, he would have made it at the age of 14.
This does not convince me at all. Even assuming he was a wunderkind, what teacher would have made available to a little boy all the equipment needed to build a chalice?
Which assayer would have affixed the city mark and his own on an object presented by a boy not registered with the guild?
I'd like to hear your views.
Best
Amena

[oel]

Hi Amena,

The silversmith's birth date could be incorrect. Have you checked the birth registers in your town and the guild's registry? Was he the son of a silversmith, and perhaps trained as apprentice under his father?
Peter.

[AG2012]

Hi,
Entry to the guild was rather complicated (at least according to written records in a log book of a minor Hungarian guild kept in National museum in Budapest). I doubt the practice elsewhere was much different.
One had to be accepted as a free citizen in the first place. After several years of apprenticeship he was eligible to present a piece of work in gold or silver to be examined by senior members of the guild. Every flaw was recorded and the master (not the apprentice) was fined a small amount contributed to guild treasury. Even having in mind short life span at the time, whenever there is a discrepancy in years, we should assume what Peter said; i.e. wrong data.
It is interesting the town had an office appointed by the crown where all silversmiths and goldsmiths (Aurifabri) were recorded and graded from 1 to 5 according to the quality of their work.
Regards

[amena]

The date of birth of that goldsmith is reported with great precision by various authors
was born in Bologna on 14 July 1700 in the parish of S. Isaia, from Giovanni Andrea Gambari and Veronica Marchesi.
The date of the chalice, which I personally had in my hands, is also credible.
And if that inscription were to be questioned, there is another chalice dated 1720, and even 20 years seem to me a few.
In any case, other objects with the mark attributed to him, have the mark of a assayer who died in 1726.
I think it is not a question of an error of dates, but an error of attribution of the silversmith's mark.
I believe that it is the mark of the shop where he learned the skill, and which, years later, he took over, continuing to use the same punch for a while.
It is too complicated to explain the whole matter, but it gives me great comfort to know that I am not alone in thinking that it is very unlikely that those chalices are the work of a 14 or 20 year old boy.
Thanks for giving me your opinion
Regards
Amena

[oel]

The guilds had social obligations towards the town community. There were strict agreements that each guild would take in a certain number of orphans and train them to become craftsmen.
Some apprentices started at the age of 9 and if the apprentice was trained by his father, they sometimes became masters at the age of 15. They often continued to work in their father's workshop and later took over the workshop and sometimes continued to use the maker's mark of their father's -workshop. Often several skilled craftsmen worked in these workshop without their own maker's mark. For example many refugee Jewish, highly skilled, craftsmen worked in Amsterdam. They were only allowed to work as servants in the guilds and could not become masters or shop owners. The quality work they produced was marked with maker's mark of the shop owner. The French occupation under Napoleon put an end to these dubious practices of the guilds.


Peter.