[/img]Mystry Mark and Date on Silver Salver! Ancient?!
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StrawIntoGold
- Posts: 9
- Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2007 11:28 am
- Location: Camden, ME
Mystry Mark and Date on Silver Salver! Ancient?!
Got four of these silver salvers at a church auction and cannont find the crown mark, NAP or 710 as a silver weight anywhere? Any ideas would be much appreciated!
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StrawIntoGold
- Posts: 9
- Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2007 11:28 am
- Location: Camden, ME
Thanks!
Wow! I guess I had the ancient part pretty right! Thanks so much!
CDC
CDC
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byron mac donald
- Posts: 410
- Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2007 1:45 am
- Location: Central Ca. USA
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byron mac donald
- Posts: 410
- Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2007 1:45 am
- Location: Central Ca. USA
I am from Europe so I did not think that country could be a problem.
Actually the country is Napoli and not Italy. Napoli is a town in the present Italy. At that time Italy did not exist as a country.
Napoli was an independent state (city state) as Florenz, Rome, Pisa etc. A number of independent states with its own money, army etc.
Just as the Vadican today is an independent state in the middle of Rome - and Rome being part of Italy - but the Vadican is not part of Italy - it has its own money, stamps, army, border control etc. People working at the Vadican are Italiens but every day the leav their home and country to travel to the independent state the Vadican.
Therefor the correct country of origin is Napoli.
Actually the country is Napoli and not Italy. Napoli is a town in the present Italy. At that time Italy did not exist as a country.
Napoli was an independent state (city state) as Florenz, Rome, Pisa etc. A number of independent states with its own money, army etc.
Just as the Vadican today is an independent state in the middle of Rome - and Rome being part of Italy - but the Vadican is not part of Italy - it has its own money, stamps, army, border control etc. People working at the Vadican are Italiens but every day the leav their home and country to travel to the independent state the Vadican.
Therefor the correct country of origin is Napoli.
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byron mac donald
- Posts: 410
- Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2007 1:45 am
- Location: Central Ca. USA
Hello Hose_dk-
Its funny, I consider my self a real fan of history. Yet I have never thought about when the Byzantine, Roman empires became "Italy". Thank you very much for the short history lesson. For others, it was much later than "We Americans" at least this one ever thought of:
Italian unification
After the Napoleonic wars, by the early 19th century, a nationalist movement developed and led to a series of Italian Independence wars, mainly against Austria-Hungary (which had replaced Spain as the dominant foreign power). As a result, the small kingdom of Sardinia (including also the north-western regions of continental Italy) achieved the reunification of the whole of Italy (except for Rome) in the 1860s, in large part due to the brilliance of the Prime Minister of Sardinia, Count Camillo Benso di Cavour. In 1861, Victor Emmanuel II of the House of Savoy was proclaimed King of Italy. Rome was incorporated in 1870. From 1861 until 1922, Italy was a constitutional monarchy with a parliament elected under limited suffrage.
The full article is here:
http://www.websters-online-dictionary.o ... tion/italy" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Once again, thank you very much for the insight, "I LOVE THIS FORUM"
Best wishes- Byron
Its funny, I consider my self a real fan of history. Yet I have never thought about when the Byzantine, Roman empires became "Italy". Thank you very much for the short history lesson. For others, it was much later than "We Americans" at least this one ever thought of:
Italian unification
After the Napoleonic wars, by the early 19th century, a nationalist movement developed and led to a series of Italian Independence wars, mainly against Austria-Hungary (which had replaced Spain as the dominant foreign power). As a result, the small kingdom of Sardinia (including also the north-western regions of continental Italy) achieved the reunification of the whole of Italy (except for Rome) in the 1860s, in large part due to the brilliance of the Prime Minister of Sardinia, Count Camillo Benso di Cavour. In 1861, Victor Emmanuel II of the House of Savoy was proclaimed King of Italy. Rome was incorporated in 1870. From 1861 until 1922, Italy was a constitutional monarchy with a parliament elected under limited suffrage.
The full article is here:
http://www.websters-online-dictionary.o ... tion/italy" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Once again, thank you very much for the insight, "I LOVE THIS FORUM"
Best wishes- Byron
Well next let us take Germany. It was also a large number of independent states. City states.
Graff so and so was the suprime ruler of that state and Graff von also so and so the other.
The kingdom of Denmark however "Gorm den Gamle" (Gorm the Old) ruled in the middle og 900. However he was not realy king of all Denmark proberly only the part called Jylland. His som however Harald Blåtand (Harald Bluetuth) ruled over the entire Denmark and Norway.
Gorm was married to Thyra and their son Harald is considered the second king Gorm being the first because he is mentioned from different sources. The timber to Gorms toomb was cut in late in 958 - so that must be the year of his death.
Graff so and so was the suprime ruler of that state and Graff von also so and so the other.
The kingdom of Denmark however "Gorm den Gamle" (Gorm the Old) ruled in the middle og 900. However he was not realy king of all Denmark proberly only the part called Jylland. His som however Harald Blåtand (Harald Bluetuth) ruled over the entire Denmark and Norway.
Gorm was married to Thyra and their son Harald is considered the second king Gorm being the first because he is mentioned from different sources. The timber to Gorms toomb was cut in late in 958 - so that must be the year of his death.
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byron mac donald
- Posts: 410
- Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2007 1:45 am
- Location: Central Ca. USA
Greetings Hose-
This is a very interesting discussion. So as it happens, Thyra's son is the new rave "Blue Tooth" ? (just kidding) As far as Gorms toomb being cut in 958, does that really mean that was the death of his death? Think of the Egyptian Pharoahs, they started there toombs 30 to 60 years before they were intombed.
Hmmm... Thyra... Oh you mean Tanmarka But? Before we get excited here... I found this very interesting article, check it out.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thyra" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Sounds like she was not a woman to mess around with. Looks like Ol' Blue tooth inherited the throne from his dad "Gorm the old" Sounds like "Thyra" was a warrior in her own right, leading an army against the Germans.
Well this has been fun, please interject any other information you have.
Regards- Byron
This is a very interesting discussion. So as it happens, Thyra's son is the new rave "Blue Tooth" ? (just kidding) As far as Gorms toomb being cut in 958, does that really mean that was the death of his death? Think of the Egyptian Pharoahs, they started there toombs 30 to 60 years before they were intombed.
Hmmm... Thyra... Oh you mean Tanmarka But? Before we get excited here... I found this very interesting article, check it out.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thyra" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Sounds like she was not a woman to mess around with. Looks like Ol' Blue tooth inherited the throne from his dad "Gorm the old" Sounds like "Thyra" was a warrior in her own right, leading an army against the Germans.
Well this has been fun, please interject any other information you have.
Regards- Byron
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byron mac donald
- Posts: 410
- Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2007 1:45 am
- Location: Central Ca. USA
The history of Denmark starts with Harald and his father
On this stone, set by Gorm and Denmark is mentioned. The "runer" says that the stone was set by Gorm for his wife Thyra the pride of Denmark.
This stone
Was set by Harald after his parents Gorm and Thyra. On the stone Harald mentions that Harald christened The danes and set this stone after his parents. He also mooved the bodyes of his parents from their toomb into the first danish church.
As you can see a very early picture of Jesus at the cross is at the stone. Originally they were painted in blue, red and yellow collors.
Regarding the year of death. No the toomb was actualy just a grave - nothing like the pyramids.
The story of danish kings started long before this arround year 300/500 "Skjoldungerne" lived at Lejre near Roskilde - however they were only kings of parts of the country - and Denmark as a nation was first mentioned at the Jellingstone.
In 1639 and 1734 - 2 gold horns was discovered in Denmark they date back to around year 400. The weight of these was 7,2 kilos of solid gold.
May 4th 1802 they were stolen and melted down into juvels and fake coins. Disappered forever - copyes were made and 2 pieces of the juvellery still exist. Today (September 17th 2007) the copies were stolen from the museum in Jelling. Along with other original objects. We suspect someone want to blackmail the Danish state to by the copies back. They are considered national treasures.
So we better leav this debat - however the original question was answered so....
bu sorry anyhow.
On this stone, set by Gorm and Denmark is mentioned. The "runer" says that the stone was set by Gorm for his wife Thyra the pride of Denmark.
This stone
Was set by Harald after his parents Gorm and Thyra. On the stone Harald mentions that Harald christened The danes and set this stone after his parents. He also mooved the bodyes of his parents from their toomb into the first danish church.
As you can see a very early picture of Jesus at the cross is at the stone. Originally they were painted in blue, red and yellow collors.
Regarding the year of death. No the toomb was actualy just a grave - nothing like the pyramids.
The story of danish kings started long before this arround year 300/500 "Skjoldungerne" lived at Lejre near Roskilde - however they were only kings of parts of the country - and Denmark as a nation was first mentioned at the Jellingstone.
In 1639 and 1734 - 2 gold horns was discovered in Denmark they date back to around year 400. The weight of these was 7,2 kilos of solid gold.
May 4th 1802 they were stolen and melted down into juvels and fake coins. Disappered forever - copyes were made and 2 pieces of the juvellery still exist. Today (September 17th 2007) the copies were stolen from the museum in Jelling. Along with other original objects. We suspect someone want to blackmail the Danish state to by the copies back. They are considered national treasures.
So we better leav this debat - however the original question was answered so....
bu sorry anyhow.
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StrawIntoGold
- Posts: 9
- Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2007 11:28 am
- Location: Camden, ME
Glad to oblige...
Little did I know by stumbling on a church auction in down town Camden, ME, a poorly attended one at that, I would increase my knowledge of my ancestors history, my Grandmother, Florence Jepson would be pleased!
The Naples/Napoli comment is very interesting as well and something that a lot of Americans do not realize, but the languages of the city states are all very different as well. It is very difficult to speak text book Italian and get by from Venice to Sicily and make yourself understood.
CDC
The Naples/Napoli comment is very interesting as well and something that a lot of Americans do not realize, but the languages of the city states are all very different as well. It is very difficult to speak text book Italian and get by from Venice to Sicily and make yourself understood.
CDC