Spoon found at English Settler camp. Need help with ID.

[recoveredmol]

Hello everyone,

I have found this spoon at what I believe is an English settler camp in the U.S. I have done a bit of research to ID this myself and may be going in the wrong direction.

So in the pictures you can see that all I have are initial maker's marks. I am using the book titled "English Goldsmiths and Their Marks". I have dug a bit to figure out the first mark which is "INo". I have found that the "I" can be used as an "I" or a "J". I have also found that the small "o" represents the second letter of the last name. I looked through all the names of the goldsmiths in this book and I found one person that matches. His name is John Nodes. I will include a picture of this also.

The maker's marks are "INo" "YA" "TR" "S"

Am I going in the right direction? Any advice on where I should go from here.

Thank you all!

[recoveredmol]

I don't know how to edit this post. I followed the guide on how to post pictures and it didn't work.

Here are the direct link to the pictures:

https://imgur.com/a/cqkZf7C

https://imgur.com/a/TaxvYb9

https://imgur.com/a/zkVLrJk

[Traintime]

Re-posting your images:







Think maybe YATES in three portions? INo=JNo might be something like Jonathan?

[Traintime]

Variety of plater’s marks related to John Yates here: https://www.silvercollection.it/electro ... WZtre.html

Bear in mind they claimed origins back to 1780, but what that means and what they worked in are somethings not stated.

[Traintime]

There is some info. indicating the early business of John Yates in Birmingham found here thanks to member Essexboy Fisher:
https://www.925-1000.com/forum/viewtopi ... es#p184234

To be clear, this is not a silver alloy body (I.e. Sterling), but a base metal amalgam of some sort. True silver would have carried formal hallmarks in accordance with established practice of the time manufactured. This is a “makers mark”.

[Traintime]

Found another sample (pewter) with your marks found in England 2017 on TreasureNet site: https://www.treasurenet.com/threads/wow ... ry.538939/

Perhaps this is War of 1812 related?

[Traintime]

Sorry, it was New England location, a few more miles out.

[recoveredmol]

Thank yall for the replies.

Very informative.

[recoveredmol]

Okay so the post that caught my eye the most was the one from the treasurenet page. Here is the link:

https://www.treasurenet.com/threads/wow ... ry.538939/

I have one small problem with his theory on the maker's marks. He claims that "INo" was used for John. And that may be true. I am not an expert. However, I found a maker's mark in a book "INe" and the guy's name was John Neville. If you notice on my spoon's mark it is big I, big N, and small o. This made me think that I was looking for a J______ No_____ maker. Here is a picture of the "INe" mark I described:



https://imgur.com/a/t32RQz4

Also, the marks that I have are "INo" YA" "TR" "S". So even if the "INO" and the "YA" are accounted for, I am still left with the "TR" and the "S." I was thinking that the "S" is possibly a date letter. If you look at the stamps, the border of the "S" is significantly different than the borders of the other 3 stamps. Seems like it was a different party...possibly the assay.

Anyways. Those are my thoughts.

Any other ideas?

[Essexboy Found]

Hello recoveredmol, the style of impressing the manufacturers names shown on you spoon is very reminiscent to the style of marking on other 19th century John Yates spoons.



It is not a common type of labelling used by many manufacturers of early cutlery. "Yates" was the name and not being solid silver no date mark / letter would have been used. We are all believing the spoon is a minimum of 150 years old and it has been in the ground and likely to have some damage. I think your "R" is an "E". Even if there has not been damage, quality control of industrial product in the 19th century was not what we expect today and your spoon would probably not have been rejected. Regarding the I/Jno mark, if you check 19th century trade directories "Jno" is a regularly seen abbreviation.

Fishless

[recoveredmol]

Hello recoveredmol, the style of impressing the manufacturers names shown on you spoon is very reminiscent to the style of marking on other 19th century John Yates spoons.



It is not a common type of labelling used by many manufacturers of early cutlery. "Yates" was the name and not being solid silver no date mark / letter would have been used. We are all believing the spoon is a minimum of 150 years old and it has been in the ground and likely to have some damage. I think your "R" is an "E". Even if there has not been damage, quality control of industrial product in the 19th century was not what we expect today and your spoon would probably not have been rejected. Regarding the I/Jno mark, if you check 19th century trade directories "Jno" is a regularly seen abbreviation.

Fishless

Thank you for the input and research. I agree with you for the most part. I do think it is John Yates.

However, I will upload a picture of the "TR" zoomed in and I'll let you decide for yourself. I can't see any way it could be an "E" unless it was a typo. Lol.

https://imgur.com/a/hisnhAg

I appreciate any feedback. Thank you for your time.

[Essexboy Found]

Hello, sorry I am not clever enough to see your image. I know it looks like an R but my opinion is that there has been a dislocation of the metal from the base of the E to the central bar of the E in manufacture of the spoon.
Fishless

[Traintime]

Posting the zoom in for posterity:



The apparent damage to the “T” may say a lot about the (alleged) warped “E”.

[recoveredmol]

Posting the zoom in for posterity:



The apparent damage to the “T” may say a lot about the (alleged) warped “E”.

Thank you train time.

I agree now that the E is warped.