Please Help Identify - Any Leads?

[Cody-B]

Hello everyone:

I found this piece at my towns local swap table. Severely tarnished, it didn’t look like much which is why it was probably tossed away (I wish I took a ‘before’ photo but wasn’t thinking this was going to be anything special). I initially didn’t see any markings on it so I thought it couldn’t be anything special. I decided I would try to polish it up the best I could and use it on my desk.



Well it cleaned up beautifully will a little silver polish… And it also revealed several marks that have left me completely puzzled. I’ve spent the last few days scouring the internet to try and find any leads, but I’ve had no luck. That’s what brings me here.

The first part of my problem is that I can’t even begin to identify what one of the markings might be. It’s located on the inside rim of the dish. Originally I thought it might be a bird but I’m not entirely sure? I know eagles are a common marking but I couldn’t find anything similar to this one. ( I know the picture isn’t the best. Because of its location inside the dish, and the dish is shallow, it’s extremely difficult to get a good photo.)



Directly behind the first mark on the outside of the dish is another mark. At first I thought it was denting from the first mark pushing through, but after a closer look it seems it might be a shield inside an octagonal shape? I’d love to get your opinions of if you think this is a separate, individual mark.



After looking over this dish countless times, today I discovered a third mark. I had overlooked this many times because I thought it was just a dent. But as you can see in the photo, it’s a letter(s). All I can make out is “L”, or at least that’s what I think it is? This mark is almost directly on the opposite side of the dish as the other two marks. Does this look like it has other letters? Did part of the mark wear away? Was this an intentional mark or an accident?



Lastly, compared to the many other pieces of silver I’ve held, this one feels thinner than usual, specifically on the bottom. It has a little give to it when I push directly in the center on the bottom (with very little pressure).

I don’t mind doing the research myself. In fact, I love doing it! But I’m stumped with this piece. I’ve scoured this site, as well as other sites, and I've come up with nothing. Any leads you could provide would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance everyone!

[dognose]

Hi,

Welcome to the Forum.

I think it likely that your bowl is French. I'll move the topic to that forum to see if get any response there.

Trev.

[Cody-B]

Hi,

Welcome to the Forum.

I think it likely that your bowl is French. I'll move the topic to that forum to see if get any response there.

Trev.

Thanks, Trev.

Can I ask what you saw that made you to think it’s French? Pure curiosity, just trying to learn here.

Best, Cody

[dognose]

Hi Cody,

A combination of clues. The fact that one mark was found directly behind another indicates the use of a bignorne, an insect-engraved anvil that provides two marks with one blow. Also the maker's mark appears to be in a lozenge surround.

Hopefully another member may see more.

Trev.

[Cody-B]

Hi Cody,

A combination of clues. The fact that one mark was found directly behind another indicates the use of a bignorne, an insect-engraved anvil that provides two marks with one blow. Also the maker's mark appears to be in a lozenge surround.

Hopefully another member may see more.

Trev.

Incredible. Thanks so much, Trev. I really appreciate the help.

[Cody-B]

Hello everyone:

I found this piece at my towns local swap table. Severely tarnished, it didn’t look like much which is why it was probably tossed away (I wish I took a ‘before’ photo but wasn’t thinking this was going to be anything special). I initially didn’t see any markings on it so I thought it couldn’t be anything special. I decided I would try to polish it up the best I could and use it on my desk.



Well it cleaned up beautifully will a little silver polish… And it also revealed several marks that have left me completely puzzled. I’ve spent the last few days scouring the internet to try and find any leads, but I’ve had no luck. That’s what brings me here.

The first part of my problem is that I can’t even begin to identify what one of the markings might be. It’s located on the inside rim of the dish. Originally I thought it might be a bird but I’m not entirely sure? I know eagles are a common marking but I couldn’t find anything similar to this one. ( I know the picture isn’t the best. Because of its location inside the dish, and the dish is shallow, it’s extremely difficult to get a good photo.)



Directly behind the first mark on the outside of the dish is another mark. At first I thought it was denting from the first mark pushing through, but after a closer look it seems it might be a shield inside an octagonal shape? I’d love to get your opinions of if you think this is a separate, individual mark.



After looking over this dish countless times, today I discovered a third mark. I had overlooked this many times because I thought it was just a dent. But as you can see in the photo, it’s a letter(s). All I can make out is “L”, or at least that’s what I think it is? This mark is almost directly on the opposite side of the dish as the other two marks. Does this look like it has other letters? Did part of the mark wear away? Was this an intentional mark or an accident?



Lastly, compared to the many other pieces of silver I’ve held, this one feels thinner than usual, specifically on the bottom. It has a little give to it when I push directly in the center on the bottom (with very little pressure).

I don’t mind doing the research myself. In fact, I love doing it! But I’m stumped with this piece. I’ve scoured this site, as well as other sites, and I've come up with nothing. Any leads you could provide would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance everyone!

Alright, I went off of the French hunch and did some digging today. I think I found marks that might match mine, but I’m looking for second opinions for confirmation.

This piece could possibly be crafted by Emile Langlois in Paris sometime between 1888-1924. I haven’t been able to identify the first mark, but I think I’ve found matches to the second and third on other pieces by Langlois









Thoughts? The marks on my piece are much less defined, very worn away, and/or incomplete, but this seems very plausible.

[Traintime]

A spoon between two crescents? See some info for HL (Lapeyre) here: https://www.925-1000.com/forum/viewtopi ... re#p174784

[bijoux.expert]

It's always worth bearing in mind that manufacturers are stingy with silver and generous with silver plate. Thus, if a piece of silverware is very thin, it's probably silver. If it's very heavy, it's more likely to be plated, though there are exceptions in the case of very high quality work.

[JayT]

@bijoux expert
I’m puzzled by several of your statements:
-French 950 standard silver is “flimsy” by comparison with French silver plate. In decades of handling French silver, I’ve never noticed this. Do you have a published source to back up your statement?
-suggestion that the object shown is not silver. The Minerva head and countermark (bigorne) are clear marks for silver, as is the maker’s mark in a lozenge-shaped reserve. What leads you to believe that this item is silver plate?
Regards.

[bijoux.expert]

Reply to JayT
The original post mentioned that the bowl was "thinner than usual". This is why I pointed out that very thin items are generally silver, makers don't bother making objects thin if the metal is worthless. And if an object is very generous with the metal, it is more likely to be plated, though obviously there is plenty of heavy solid silver around.
I've been handling French silver for decades too, I live and work in France and have been dealing here since 1993. I never wrote that 950 silver is flimsy, so I don't need any source to back up what I didn't write.
I never wrote that the object is not silver, either. There are, as you mention, very clear signs that it is silver.
Perhaps you were confusing my post with that of someone else?
Have a great day.