Hallmarks ,What country?

[gsmoggy]

Hi Members
Looking for information on this mark for a friend.
Any idea what country ,Is the man holding the cross with letters A M ,a makers mark ?

Kind Regards Guido.

[oel]

Hi,

Perhaps Italy, city of Venice
https://www.silvercollection.it/VENICEHALLMARKS.html
viewtopic.php?p=216608#p216608
viewtopic.php?t=62821
Let us wait for Amena to drop in.

Peter.

[gsmoggy]

Many thanks Peter great work ,looks like you maybe correct.
As you say Amena may shed more light on the marks.
Regards Guido.

[amena]

This hallmarking is a bit suspicious.
The mark with the number 1 is one of the marks I indicate as suspects, but without the "smoking gun"at the end of my article
viewtopic.php?t=62821
The other mark, with the number 2, mimics the Antonio Magrino's mark, but has obvious differences.

If they were authentic, what would the mark of a Turin silversmith do together with the mark of the Venice mint?
Could it be that mark 2 is the mark of an unknown silversmith from the Venetian hinterland?
It would truly be an incredible coincidence.

[gsmoggy]

Hello Amena
Thank you very much for your explanation of the marks.
So what is the conclusion about the plate?
A fake? may be original?
If a copy of earlier style when do you feel it was made? have you seen similar plates with these marks,and family initials?
not sure why they would do fake marks on an item that does not very valuable to me.
Are these made around the 1900s like the German ,Hanau pseudo marks ?and classed in a similar way?
again I appreciate your assistance.
Regards Guido.

[amena]

Hi Guido
The most likely thing is that it is an imitation.
Knowing when it was done becomes difficult.
Generally these imitations were manufactured from the beginning of the 20th century until around the 1960s, some even with ancient manual techniques.
If you can post good quality photos of both the marks and the manufacturing details (e.g. making the edge, front and back) it might help.
Best regards
Amena

[gsmoggy]

Hello Amena
many thanks for all the great information,I will pass it on to the Auction house.
My gut feeling is you maybe correct that it is an imitation.
did not have the patina and feel and look of an early original plate.It even look plated to me an may not even been silver (?)
I will not bother with other images as auction house a fair distance.
always great full for your help.
it is 2am here watching French open women's match.

regards Guido.

[gsmoggy]

Hello Amena
The Auction house has sent me some new images of the marks and plate.
There is another mark that I did not show you before. Interested in your thoughts on new mark on same plate.(in original photo shows as small mark over to one side of other marks)
not sure if new mark changes anything re age ? could not see new mark in your previous post on the history of psuedo Italian marks.
marks on this plate may also be good for your future research always great to have additional images.


Regards Guido.

[amena]

Hi Guido
The images you posted are very useful and of good quality, thank you very much.
These are obviously two different plates. If you compare the engravings of the initials you will see some small differences.
Moreover the mark number 2, which simulates the Magrino mark, is completely struck here, even near the hand and the letter A.
Together we find a mark that imitates that of Carlo Micha, who was assayer at the Turin mint in the years in which Magrino worked.
This avoids the discrepancy between the Magrino mark and that of the Venice mint, which together make no sense.
However, even the mark that should be Micha's one, is not entirely convincing and does not appear genuine.

I still think that this other dish is also a remake.
Best regards
Amena

[gsmoggy]

Many Thanks Amena
For you quick reply and comments.
the plates weigh 756g.
They are very interest looking plates.
I will pass your info on .

are these sort of plates collected in Italy?
Regards Guido.

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