Fake Dublin marks 1739?

[dancula]

These marks are on flatware that seem to indicate Dublin 1739 (letter T) but the maker mark "JO" appears to belong to John Osborne who worked in 1780s-90s. Have they been falsified?
Thanks

[scorpio]

The JO mark does look like that of John (or Jonas) Osborne and I see no others similar to it in Bennett's books or Jackson's. Seems to be in much better condition (barely worn at all) than the other marks, which as you say, look like 1739, so perhaps the maker's mark is overstamped on an older piece for some reason. The style of the flatware should help identify its age rather than marks in this instance so maybe post an image of the entire flatware item.

[dancula]

Thank you for that insightful response! The maker mark does seem to be less worn!
Here is a photo of the marrow scoop in question.

[scorpio]

I can't see why a forger would want to falsify marks on a marrow scoop, which are not particularly valuable and do it so incompetently that the disparity in marks is patently obvious.

Marrow spoons are far more desirable so converting a table spoon to a marrow spoon was a common forgery both in Ireland and the UK.

In Ireland, marrow scoops date from around 1690 and were made up to the end of the 18th century and beyond. To me, the style of your marrow scoop with its wider and less rounded main scoop indicates the date marks are correct. If you examine late 18th century marrow scoops, say the last quarter, you will see that these usually have more rounded ends and often tapered slightly.

So I believe the maker's mark is an overstamp for some reason but not for the intent of forgery.

Others here may have their own opinions.

[juantotree]

Also bear in mind where the person using the scoop would hold it, particularly when holding the end with the shorter scoop. Looking at the placement of the marks, is their hand more likely to come into contact with the more worn marks and not the makers mark?

Martin

[dancula]

Thanks again.
Perhaps the overstamp was added due to a slight modification by that silversmith to the original scoop 50 years later..

[scorpio]

Well, I have discovered some interesting information.

A John Osborne, Silversmith, is reported as having died on Castle Street (a street in Dublin), on the 10th December 1789. I'm assuming this cannot be the Jonas (John) Osborne mentioned in Douglas Bennett's Irish Silver books as his working life was 1784 - 1809 and there is extant silver with his maker's mark after 1789. Could this earlier John Osborne be his father and Jonas (John) Osborne took over the family busines and could the father be the maker of this marrow scoop?

Bennett made extensive use of Dublin street business directories so I'm not sure what will turn up if anything but I will check these later.

[dancula]

That does sound like a potential lead! Thanks for following that up.

[scorpio]

Seems the early Directories are not accessible online. The 'The Gentleman and Citizen's Almanack (Watson's) 1729 - 1743' directories (not sure what they contain) are only available on microfilm from Dublin City Council Library & Archive, likely the National Library of Ireland too, as are Wilson's Dublin Directories 1751-1753 (&1761-1837), said to be the earliest commercial street directories.

Wislson's Street Directory for 1804 (available online) only shows a William Osborne, Jeweller, in Grafton Street. That's about all I can find.

[scorpio]

Yes, the NLI also has Wilson's 1751-53 Directory but only available in its Manuscripts Reading Room and likely on microfilm. While I am a member, I won't be in there anytime soon.

[dancula]

Thank you for taking it this far.. much appreciated.

[scorpio]

Very welcome. I like a puzzle and John Osborne, Silversmith, who died in 1789, is not mentioned in any book on Irish silver so a puzzle. On the other hand, I can only find one reference to silver by a John Osborne pre 1784 (working start date of Jonas [John] Osborne) and that is a serving spoon dated 1762, maker probably John Osborne so by no means definite. The marks are so indistinct on the low quality photo I can't make them out.

Faulkner's Dublin Journal -- 1725-1798
1789, 10th December
Death: In Castle-street, Mr. John Osborne, Silversmith.

If I find out anything else I'll post here.