Spanish Fermin Badge 916/000

[chaun64]

Hola! This is a Spanish submarine pin from "Fermin" with an assay mark of 916/000. Everything I read seems to indicate this means pre-1934, but this badge design does not seem representative of the Spanish badges prior to 1934... though the crown does match that period. There is a hallmark that is a hexagon (see closeup) with 4 numbers/letters that MAY be "1", "8"/"B", "P"/"F", and "N". Does anyone have any information on the jeweler Fermin? And is it possible that "916/000" assay mark could be used during the post-Franco period? (1975-present) Thanks so much for your help!!

[oel]

Hi Chaun, welcome to the forum. Regarding the silver fineness, I read; Spain domestic silver hallmarks 1934-1988. In the 1934 revision of the silver hallmarks, the 1st standard was marginally lowered from 916 to 915, while the 2nd standard remained the same at 750. Silver standard 915 means minimum 915 or higher, and 916 could still be used.
Spain responsibility marks; as of 1934, all domestic items were stamped with an individual maker's or responsibility mark, with the maker's initial(s) above a registration number, in a hexagonal frame-shape.


Source; World Hallmarks Volume I, hallmarks of Europe 19th to 21st Centuries William B. Whetstone, Danusia V. Niklewicz, Lindy L. Matula 2nd Edition, page 291 and page 292 Spain.

[chaun64]

Ah - interesting! So, 916 CAN be used... but is it? I have not been able to find any examples of "916/000" on items after 1934... so far! I also haven't been able to find any evidence of the "Fermin" maker... I was surprised to not find a mention on this site. Is there another option for searching jewelers?

Thanks!

[oel]

The 916/1000 is not a hallmark but only a indication. The Spanish pentagram hallmark for minimum 915/000 is missing. The maker's mark in a hexagonal contour indicates marked/made 1934 or later.
For Spanish silver hallmarks see;
https://www.925-1000.com/foreign_marks6.html
https://www.silvercollection.it/DICTION ... SPAIN.HTML

Perhaps other forum members can give more/better information. Good luck with your search.

Peter

[chaun64]

Thanks so much for the information Peter!

[chaun64]

I am still searching for information on the jeweler "Fermin", who I believe to be Spanish... possibly in operation between the 1930s and the 1970s. I would appreciate any insights anyone may have!

[Traintime]

What type of sub is it? The pin can’t be any earlier than the class of boat was created. Maybe a larger image. As it appears now, it looks like a German Type VII a (two mounted deck guns) but maybe it’s something later.

[Traintime]

Here’s the Naval Enclopedia page on Spain: https://naval-encyclopedia.com/ww2/spain/submarines.php

Best I could find was the General Mola class of 1937 (2 ex-Italian boats) having two deck guns. The German Type VIIc did end up in the Spanish fleet (1boat) but that class had no deck gun mountings. If correct, then the pin should be 1937 or later. But I’m wildly guessing here.

[Traintime]

Not sure about these drawings’ accuracy, but Ministry of Defense indicates a design change in 1978 with the two gun boat displayed: https://armada.defensa.gob.es/ArmadaPor ... --06FLOSUB

[chaun64]

Thanks so much for that info - very interesting! I did find out that the very early badges had a separate crown - then the crown was removed during the Spanish civil war. Then, from the 40s to the 70s (Franco period) the subs still had the 2 guns, but were a less rounded design. The prevailing thought is that this badge is post-Franco (different crown - Franco crown vs the Alphonso/Juan Carlos crowns)... but the markings on the back seemed to indicate it was earlier to me... BUT, the hexagonal mark indicates between 1934 & 1988... so the mid-70s definitely fits for that. But, I would think there should be some type of online presence for a company from the 1970s... have been unable to find anything!

The search for Fermin continues! lol

[Funkel]

I think it could be Fermín Jewelry, Calle Amargura, 1-A Manacor - Mallorca (Islas Baleares).

http://www.joyeriafermin.com/fermin.htm

Look at the poster of the Google photo, very similar to your brand.

https://www.google.com/maps/uv?pb=!1s0x ... x96BAg9EA0


Greetings

[Traintime]

Looks like you got it. Congrats.
Re-posting larger images 4, 3, & 2 (#1 won’t click on):

[Traintime]

So, the assay office code here that looks like “TM” should actually correspond to “PM” for the correct location according to the linked chart.

[Funkel]

Indeed "PM" would be Palma de Mallorca - Balearic Islands and 18 would be the reference number of the store. In the link that I sent you there is an email from the store, try to contact them. Greetings

[chaun64]

Thanks so much for the information guys! it appears the store is closed down now... but not that long ago. Now to try to find a point of contact who might have access to their records. Appreciated it!