Dating N for Nurnberg on Taste in or sweat meat dish

[mglangeveld]

Hello,

I found this small dish on an online fleamarket.
I belueve this is a 17th century Nurnberg dish.
Unfortunately i have no recent books on German / Nurnberg marks
Rosenburg shows a lot of N's for 16th-18th century.
I was wondering if someone can dat these marks more precisely.
It has the N for Nurnberg and 13 for silverquality.
In the rim there is a spit that might be just a flaw in the surface
Of a very worn makersmark i cant make anything out of.

Help is much appreciated

[huszas76]

It is 19. century, most likely Hanau pseudomarks.
Best regards!
Krisztián

[mglangeveld]

Hi,

Thanks for your reply. Can you elaborate a little more
on why you think it's 19th century Hanau?
I have not been able to find these marks in online
Refereces to Hanau marks. I would also expect more than two
not very destinct marks on Hanau silver.
But maybe you have examples of these?
I also has quite some wear i would not expect from a 19th century
"collectors" item.

Best regards

M Langeveld

[oel]

To me the dish appears not hand hammered or mould cast but stamped, likely 19th century. Agree with Krisztián, N is an often seen pseudo mark, with or without 13. What are the the sizes and weight of this dish, is there a tremolierstich or zigzag mark?
See;
https://www.925-1000.com/Fgerman_hanau_marks_01.html
Example Nurnberg 17th century.

Nuremberg 1665-69. Maker's mark Johann Höfler.
Peter.

[mglangeveld]

Hello, thank you for your comments.

I am familiar with Hanau silverware and marks, but could not find any marks similar to those on this dish.

The photos I posted earlier may not do it justice. It is certainly not a cast or stamped decoration. The decorations are all manually driven and cisselled on pitch as you would expect. The whole thing is driven from thin silver, total weight is 61.5 grams . The dimensions are about 15x10cm including handles.

I have just polished and re-photographed the whole thing, perhaps it can all be seen better on that. There are some traces what looks like
gilding here and there.

[mglangeveld]

It might still me 19th century, but I hope someone recognizes the exact same "N" on another piece wich has a known date.
Both Tardy and Rosenberg seem to show this specific "N" but ofcourse there are a lot of mistakes in these.

[huszas76]

Hello!
To be honest I really don't understand why did you think this is from 17. century.
First of all I have never seen the fineness nr 13 (lot) in a 17. century silver. Started to use in the 18. century, in Nuernberg I saw only from the 19. century.
In the 17. century german silver items usually you will find tremolier (zigzag line). It used to check the fineness of the silver.
And if you believe it is Nuernberg, but where is the maker's mark? It would very unusual to push the city guild mark without maker's mark.
So as I think there is no any sign to indicate 17. century.
That's how I see this case, I don't think I have to find examples similar 19. century items because nothing suggest to me 17. century.
Best regards!
Krisztián

[Theoderich]

It might still me 19th century, but I hope someone recognizes the exact same "N" on another piece wich has a known date.
Both Tardy and Rosenberg seem to show this specific "N" but ofcourse there are a lot of mistakes in these.

This was a very big company. There are so many objekts with this marks and I can not understand, why I do not know the name of the company, the town or country
it is also in the book of GNM as fake/pseudo Nürnberg marks

[mglangeveld]

Hello,

Thanks for your response, i think this was the information i was looking for.
Unfortunately i can 't find which publucation of the gnm you are referring to. As i have not
Much info on german publucations. Do you remembering the title of this book, i then might be able
To find it somewhere so i can have a look at it and find out more on this piece